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Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

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Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#271

Post by kipchak »

sgift wrote: post #80
munmaek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the US and everything to do with an asymmetric relationship. The police have immense power, you do not. What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The rule is simple: don't interact with the police. They are not your friends, anything you do or say can and will be used against you at a wh…

> What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The job of the police is to help me. To do that effectively they have to sometimes talk to me. It is therefore in my interest to talk to them.

Warren v. District of Columbia is a good example of that not always being the case.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#272

Post by jammygit »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #101
laumars wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking for outrage rather than trying to understand point I'm making and in doing so you've gotten the wrong end of the proverbial stick. I'm not saying everyone should conform, I'm just saying some people need more help than others to make a life for themselves. Sometimes it's because of substance abuse, sometimes it's because of mental, physical or sexual abuse as a kid that leads them into a pattern of bad…

I didn't do a very good job here, and my last line really should have been omitted. I agree with your original post, and this one too (will upvote both) but I am really wary of the potential for abuse that trying to help people become 'better' people can become. A really ugly actual example from about 1969: "Because homosexuality has been considered an endemic and deep-rooted condition since times of antiquity, hopes…

Alberta used to perform forced sterilization upon people with physical and mental disabilities. I don’t want the government going near people for their own good

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/alberta-apologizes-for-forced...

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#273

Post by Fogest »

sandworm101 wrote: post #269
Fogest wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you're quite correct. I was in this case talking to more of a detective style person, not a regular in uniform police officer. They were taking notes while I was talking which was okay. However if anything went to court, or for it to go to court I would have had to had a video statement. Me being in the police officers messy office just having a conversation about an incident is much different from giving them a…

>> They were taking notes while I was talking which was okay. However if anything went to court, or for it to go to court I would have had to had a video statement. >> Since nothing was recorded not much could be done. That's where you are incorrect. The cop was taking notes. The cop can take the stand to testify as to what you said. During that testimony he may refer to his notes. Hearsay rules are complicated but i…

I do not believe that would be enough to convict someone in a criminal case though. Sure maybe for a traffic ticket. But an informal discussion one-on-one with a police officer, with no recording is pretty iffy evidence to stand on as being the only piece of evidence.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#275

Post by Causality1 »

mcv wrote: post #44
Causality1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian police have their fair share of psychopathic bullies and systemic racist murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/03/30/football_player_... https://globalnews.ca/news/1608030/new-video-shows-another-c... https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/07/30/toronto_cop_ch...

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good, though. There will always be something wrong. The point is to address it and reduce how often it goes wrong. I'm not denying these incidents are terrible; they are. And even if you do address them and punish the perpetrators, you'll still occasionally have police officers that do the wrong thing. But that doesn't mean it's pointless to hold police accountable, or to train them…

I don't. I'm just saying that if a group of uniformed men showed up at my front door with guns the fact they're Canadian would not be especially comforting.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#276

Post by mcv »

danharaj wrote: post #274
mcv wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly reject that defeatist attitude.

By definition the police are the enemy of certain citizens.

But ideally only those who actively choose to have the police as their enemy.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#277

Post by PostOnce »

diveanon wrote: post #259
PostOnce wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if we move the TSA into the streets and have mandatory inspections of every home every day? We could mandate reporting on neighbors. We, too, could become a shining example of what happens when the state is primarily concerned with the welfare of its citizens, just like North Korea.

You're missing the point. Americans already value physical privacy over digital. Nobody is taking their guns, just their privacy, which they gave away long ago for likes. Use the idiocy of masses for some good and maybe we can solve some real problems instead of dancing around the same old issues. Net neutrality and digital privacy are dead, and most western countries are well on their way to becoming surveillance st…

Well the point was that an utter absence of privacy, a world where privacy was illegal, even, would theoretically catch A LOT of bad people, but the losses far, FAR outweigh the gains -- think of what living in a fearful society would be like.

Net neutrality and digital privacy aren't remotely dead, for one thing because we don't live in a Universal Jurisdiction. The EFF exists for a reason and they're not trying to revive a corpse; they're trying to bring a slightly unhealthy body back to full strength.

It's not hard to imagine how this whole thing could go incredibly awry, and lead to abuses of power previously seen only in dystopian fiction.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#278

Post by ultrarunner »

ultrarunner wrote: post #250
wolco wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The policing can very so much in the US. You have regions where cops will try to seize money / property from innocent travelers as part of county funding instead of raising taxes. The punishments can vary so much. Private prisons create this profit incentive to jail more people. Prisions should be a cost center not a profit center.

Private prisons are an awful situation, but last I’d seen they comprised a small percentage of incarcerations. While they’re part of the problem, I think they are more a symptom of the brokenness of the criminal justice system than the cause.

I found a ProPublica article with broken links to government sources that says around 8% of prisoners were housed in private prisons in 2010. A Pew Research article[0] shows that private prisons have housed between 5-8%, but in 2016 out of 2,162,400 total prisoners[1] only 128,063 of them were in private prisons[2], which is about 6%.

I wholeheartedly agree that 6% of the prison population (128,063 people!) is a situation worthwhile of positive change. But I remain skeptical that it's those damn private prisons that are ruining everything. Mostly I think it's debacles like the drug war that need real immediate attention and change before things will significantly improve.

[0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/11/u-s-private...

[1]https://www.bjs.gov/content/keystatistics/csv/Total_correcti...

[2]https://www.criminaljusticeprograms.com/articles/private-pri... again citing the BJS.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#279

Post by diveanon »

PostOnce wrote: post #277
diveanon wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Americans already value physical privacy over digital. Nobody is taking their guns, just their privacy, which they gave away long ago for likes. Use the idiocy of masses for some good and maybe we can solve some real problems instead of dancing around the same old issues. Net neutrality and digital privacy are dead, and most western countries are well on their way to becoming surveillance st…

Well the point was that an utter absence of privacy, a world where privacy was illegal, even, would theoretically catch A LOT of bad people, but the losses far, FAR outweigh the gains -- think of what living in a fearful society would be like. Net neutrality and digital privacy aren't remotely dead, for one thing because we don't live in a Universal Jurisdiction. The EFF exists for a reason and they're not trying to…

"the losses far, FAR outweigh the gains"

I disagree and think the topic should be open to public debate.

Would I trust the US or China to implement a system like this fairly?

No.

However, in a country with a functional and impartial judicial system I think it has the potential to save many lives and redefine the criminal justice system into something that focuses on preventing crime and treating mental illness instead of just prosecuting it.

I don't place a lot of value on your existential fear of abuse, just as I don't place a lot of value on 2nd amendment supporters existential fear of tyranny.

"Muh data" sounds just as hollow as "muh guns" when weighed against the very real threats faced by innocent people every day.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#280

Post by PostOnce »

diveanon wrote: post #279
PostOnce wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the point was that an utter absence of privacy, a world where privacy was illegal, even, would theoretically catch A LOT of bad people, but the losses far, FAR outweigh the gains -- think of what living in a fearful society would be like. Net neutrality and digital privacy aren't remotely dead, for one thing because we don't live in a Universal Jurisdiction. The EFF exists for a reason and they're not trying to…

"the losses far, FAR outweigh the gains" I disagree and think the topic should be open to public debate. Would I trust the US or China to implement a system like this fairly? No. However, in a country with a functional and impartial judicial system I think it has the potential to save many lives and redefine the criminal justice system into something that focuses on preventing crime and treating mental illness instea…

So your policy is in effect "Let us oppress the many to protect the few."

Alright, then.

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