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Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

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Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#221

Post by aclsid »

mcv wrote: post #133
bmmayer1 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, then there's a problem with this statement: > In my opinion, a police that's feared rather than trusted, is a sign of a police state or totalitarian regime. If that's not what the country wants to be, then it's a problem that needs to be fixed The assumption is that if the police is feared / overly militaristic, then by definition that country must 'want' to be a police state. Given that Americans ove…

If Americans don't want to live in a police state, then they should demand that the behaviour of their police changes. That police officers are held accountable, and are better trained to perform their job in the interest of the people, rather than merely their own interest or that of the government. If you have control over your police, then please exercise it. I think the problem that's holding Americans back, also…

Having lived in the US, I feel the police is non-corrupt and competent, which is a major step from places like Latin America, some places in Asia, Africa or even Eastern Europe.

My main complaint is that they are being used as tax collectors instead of counties solving their issues through other means.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#222

Post by elliekelly »

chrisseaton wrote: post #213
781 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That video is very US centric. In Europe in particular, police officers are not such an enemy. Also, in UK, refusing to talk to police at first contact can be used against you, for example it will be more difficult later to introduce exculpatory evidence that you were supposed to know of at the time you refused to speak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an...

I believe the reason for this is the idea that it's a massive waste of the public's time and resources for you to refuse to reveal evidence which could have stopped the prosecution well before it went to trial.

Yes, most of Europe/the World uses a "civil law" system which is much less adversarial than the U.S. & U.K.'s "common law" system.[1]

Fun fact: because of their French (and to a lesser degree, Spanish) influence, Louisiana's laws still follow a civil law system.

[1] https://www.apprendre-le-droit.fr/anglais-juridique/what-is-...

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#223

Post by wolco »

cjhveal wrote: post #27
taneq wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Canada but I'd apply similar caution in Australia. Note that the police aren't your enemy , but the greater your surface area towards them the more likely you are to have issues, so unless you really need them you're still better off minimizing your exposure to them.

Having grown up in Canada, this also characterizes my experience with law enforcement.

Having also grown up in Canada the parent/parent could not be more accurate.

The larger your surface area the more likely you will have problems.

It makes sense. Law enforcement is looking for someone to blame for crimes. You interact enough you might just fit a profile.

Police never lose pay for misjudging anyone.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#224

Post by moate »

_lessthan0 wrote: post #177
barry-cotter wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most of the world the police could beat you to death with video evidence and they’d get away with it. Competent, professional more or less upright police are not the worldwide or historical norm. In most of the world the police are the biggest gang. Police in the US are the very model of probity, courtesy and professionalism compared to almost every country in the Western Hemisphere, never mind African, Arab or As…

lmao, unless you are not a white hetero male. US police are most likely the worst in the west.

Eh. Latin America has had plenty of well documented problems with police.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#225

Post by kjsbfkjbf »

781 wrote: post #208
cabaalis wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend everyone watch this video. It's geared towards lawyers. If the police are asking questions with any level of suspicion at all, don't talk to them. Even if you do not lie, and are innocent, the things you say can still be used against you. Summarizing: 1. There is no way it can help. 2. If your client is guilty (or even innocent), they might admit guilt with nothing in return. 3. If your client is innocent…

That video is very US centric. In Europe in particular, police officers are not such an enemy. Also, in UK, refusing to talk to police at first contact can be used against you, for example it will be more difficult later to introduce exculpatory evidence that you were supposed to know of at the time you refused to speak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an...

> In Europe in particular, police officers are not such an enemy.

Everywhere in the world the police are your enemy. They exist as the manifestation of a state's domestic violence.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#226

Post by [deleted] »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #210
laumars wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm getting badly uptight because ISTM you may have defined suicide into something you are morally required to intervene in, and prevent. From your orig post: "...given support to help enable them to grow into better people..." You're obsessing over one sentence, pulling it apart and taking it completely out of context - even after I have already clarified what I meant. I have repeatedly made the case that support…

I'm "pulling [that sentence] apart" because it's the very pivot point of the issue. The core, the crux, the interpretation of which is purely subjective, so where things can go bad. I actually agreed with some of your posts and upvoted 2 of them (edit: including the original one I replied to initially!) When I was concerned about was the fine balance between helping and suddenly forcing 'for their own good', hence in…

[deleted]

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#227

Post by peeters »

hedgedoops2 wrote: post #163

The problem is that police are being involved in the job of social workers. I guess it would be an acceptable and useful system if: - Police had write-only access to the database. - Police had no involvement in interventions. - Anyone was able to fill out a form and get their data purged. - Everyone in the database could easily discover it. Basically, separate law enforcement and social work. And enforce strict data…

> The problem is that police are being involved in the job of social workers.

Isn't the whole point of this that they can't be expected to be social workers?

> For example, a police officer may be called to respond to someone’s disruptive but non-criminal behaviour time and again. Under the Hub model, the officer can bring the person’s situation to the Hub—which may include staff from child welfare, addictions, or housing assistance agencies—and ask if other agencies can intervene.

The idea is that calling the police may be a blunt instrument, but maybe they can get the right instrument in place. I'm not dismissing the concerns with such information sharing, just seems like the point is to get the right people for the right circumstance.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#228

Post by some_random »

781 wrote: post #208
cabaalis wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend everyone watch this video. It's geared towards lawyers. If the police are asking questions with any level of suspicion at all, don't talk to them. Even if you do not lie, and are innocent, the things you say can still be used against you. Summarizing: 1. There is no way it can help. 2. If your client is guilty (or even innocent), they might admit guilt with nothing in return. 3. If your client is innocent…

That video is very US centric. In Europe in particular, police officers are not such an enemy. Also, in UK, refusing to talk to police at first contact can be used against you, for example it will be more difficult later to introduce exculpatory evidence that you were supposed to know of at the time you refused to speak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an...

That sounds pretty dysfunctional to me, unless UK laws are so simple and clear cut that anyone can be expected to know and recall them.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#229

Post by wolco »

barry-cotter wrote: post #161
sgift wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post and the article have the same problem: Thinking the way police works/seems to work in the US (always out to get you) is universal to the world while it is the exception. Police in other countries usually works out of a desire to help.

In most of the world the police could beat you to death with video evidence and they’d get away with it. Competent, professional more or less upright police are not the worldwide or historical norm. In most of the world the police are the biggest gang. Police in the US are the very model of probity, courtesy and professionalism compared to almost every country in the Western Hemisphere, never mind African, Arab or As…

The policing can very so much in the US. You have regions where cops will try to seize money / property from innocent travelers as part of county funding instead of raising taxes.

The punishments can vary so much.

Private prisons create this profit incentive to jail more people.

Prisions should be a cost center not a profit center.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#230

Post by johnnycab »

781 wrote: post #208
cabaalis wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend everyone watch this video. It's geared towards lawyers. If the police are asking questions with any level of suspicion at all, don't talk to them. Even if you do not lie, and are innocent, the things you say can still be used against you. Summarizing: 1. There is no way it can help. 2. If your client is guilty (or even innocent), they might admit guilt with nothing in return. 3. If your client is innocent…

That video is very US centric. In Europe in particular, police officers are not such an enemy. Also, in UK, refusing to talk to police at first contact can be used against you, for example it will be more difficult later to introduce exculpatory evidence that you were supposed to know of at the time you refused to speak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an...

>in UK, refusing to talk to police at first contact can be used against you

If you have read any of the anonymous blogs by those on the Job, they almost always tell you to either keep your mouth shut or say as little as possible ─ this was the wisdom imparted by 'Nightjack' before he got outed and had to delete his blog, subsequently going on to win accolades and the Orwell Prize.[1]

https://web.archive.org/web/20090426201221/http://nightjack....

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Horton_(blogger)

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