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What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

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Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#61

Post by stronglikedan »

yodsanklai wrote: post #7
rongenre wrote: post #3

I stopped eating meat 6 years ago. I miss it, but decided to try going veg-only + eggs/dairy and see how it impacted my life. If I found myself unable to keep up with my exercise routines (bicycling and sporadic weight work), I'd have stopped. But it really didn't affect things, and I find myself unable to justify the cruelty of meat production. One note: I did notice that it's tougher to control carb intake while ea…

> I find myself unable to justify the cruelty of meat production I understand this argument, but it doesn't apply to all meat I suppose. Conversely, eggs/dairy also often involves cruel treatment. Not to say your choice is wrong, I'm just wondering what's the most rationale way of dealing with these aspects.

It's a lot easier and more affordable to source eggs and dairy from humane sources than it is to source meat.

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#62

Post by malvosenior »

sridca wrote: post #41

Yet another dietary article not in favour of veganism/vegetarianism got flagged. Well done Hacker News.

Indeed, why would this be flagged? There's plenty of vegan stuff on this site and it's never flagged. The same argument always comes up too: "red meat causes cancer!". Now we have an article exploring that point and it's flagged so we can't discuss it. Lame.

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#63

Post by vfc1 »

smarkov wrote: post #54
vfc1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do know, all the evidence points in the direction that the western diet, high in animal products and processed foods is the number explanation for the rampant increase of cancer, diabetes and heart disease in the west. This argument is old: we don't know because the perfect experiment has not been conducted and never will and because the studies that we have don't say what we want to hear. If the news is bad, ques…

From the article you linked: > Eating more red meat under the Paleo diet paired with a lack of whole grains results in higher levels of a biomarker linked to heart disease WITH A LACK OF WHOLE GRAINS. Does that mean that red meat is the cause or that the lack of a balanced diet is the cause? > The places in the world that have the best health are the ones that eat fewer animal products. Where's the evidence for that…

It just means that the population cancer rates in general just keep rising, and adopters of the paleo diet which is promoted as a meat-based health diet have even higher levels of certain cancer biomarkers.

The current science says that processed meat is a known carcinogen, and red meat a likely carcinogen. This

The places with the highest lifespan have all low animal product diets and are known as the blue zones - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

The health in the US is pretty bad, the rates of cancer, stroke, heart disease, and diabetes are at all-time highs and keep rising.

You can give drugs to people and keep them alive for longer, but in which conditions?

Did you see the source of the article? It's a journal sponsored by the meat industry - https://academic.oup.com/af/pages/About

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#64

Post by lawlessone »

dbingham wrote: post #56
ryandvm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think I have an open mind, but this line of reasoning is a non-starter for me. Releasing chemicals upon damage is a far cry (no pun intended) from the anguish and pain a sentient creature is obviously capable of. Plants just do not have the necessary information processing facilities to allow them to suffer. But hell, supposing they did, what could we even do about it? Are we supposed to switch to some sort…

Are we so sure that plants aren't sentient or can't be sentient? We originally assumed we were the only sentient and self aware animal on the planet. We've gradually realized that we're definitely not, but the assumption that self-awareness and sentience must look similar to what it does in us seems to have stuck. Think about what's required for pavlov's experiment. They took pea plants and turned on, by turns, a fan…

>Are we so sure that plants aren't sentient

Yes.

>Pea plants will grow towards light pretty actively. In the experimental group, they would consistently grow in the direction of the fan - expecting the light to follow the wind.

You don't need sentience for that.

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#65

Post by vfc1 »

malvosenior wrote: post #62
sridca wrote: post #41

Yet another dietary article not in favour of veganism/vegetarianism got flagged. Well done Hacker News.

Indeed, why would this be flagged? There's plenty of vegan stuff on this site and it's never flagged. The same argument always comes up too: "red meat causes cancer!". Now we have an article exploring that point and it's flagged so we can't discuss it. Lame.

This seems to be from a magazine sponsored by the meat industry, so it could be why it was taken down - https://academic.oup.com/af/pages/About

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#66

Post by fredsir »

rongenre wrote: post #60
Accacin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by unhealthy snack options? There are loads, I tend to eat nuts and fruit, hummus, fruit, etc. I'm not sure where you are, but there are some lovely snack bars in the UK called 'nakd' that are cold pressed fruit bars in a variety of flavours that often do the trick when I want to snack. If I'm not wanting any of the former, crisps are always a way for me to feel full quickly though they're hard…

Yeah, nuts are pretty much my staple snack food. I try to reduce sugars, though -- they've got an addictive quality -- which takes out fruit and most snack bars and cookies.

I don’t believe there are valid studies showing that sugar in a whole food, like a piece of fresh fruit with all the fiber and water that entails that slows down the intake and the absorption of the sugar, has that ability anywhere nearly as much as in stuff like cookies, snack bars and so on. Like at all. I really don’t think you should limit your (whole) fruit intake.

If you know something I don’t, though, please do tell.

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#67

Post by malvosenior »

vfc1 wrote: post #65
malvosenior wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, why would this be flagged? There's plenty of vegan stuff on this site and it's never flagged. The same argument always comes up too: "red meat causes cancer!". Now we have an article exploring that point and it's flagged so we can't discuss it. Lame.

This seems to be from a magazine sponsored by the meat industry, so it could be why it was taken down - https://academic.oup.com/af/pages/About

I'd rather see their points addressed than just flagged because they're from the "wrong" industry.

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#69

Post by sridca »

vfc1 wrote: post #65
malvosenior wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, why would this be flagged? There's plenty of vegan stuff on this site and it's never flagged. The same argument always comes up too: "red meat causes cancer!". Now we have an article exploring that point and it's flagged so we can't discuss it. Lame.

This seems to be from a magazine sponsored by the meat industry, so it could be why it was taken down - https://academic.oup.com/af/pages/About

What "meat industry"? From the quoted link:

> These organizations are dedicated to the advancement and dissemination of science-based knowledge concerning animal agriculture.

This is a scientific magazine on a particular domain (animal agriculture).

Even so, this article should be discussed on its own. And its author, Dr. David M Klurfeld, is not associated with the meat industry.

If you just want to suppress discussion of health benefits of meat why not just honestly say so? After all, that's likely the motive behind this submission getting flagged.

Re: What is the role of meat in a healthy diet?

#70

Post by DoreenMichele »

Upon skim, the study appears to be about the relationship between meat consumption and colon cancer, not the more general question of what role it plays in a healthy diet.

Everything I have ever read seems to indicate that people who are strict vegetarians, especially strict vegans, have trouble getting enough B vitamins. If you consume some animal products, such as seafood but not beef or chicken ("pescatarian"), this is not an issue.

I think there is an argument to be made that eating a low meat diet is generally wiser for most people. It's also easier on the earth -- which is a not insignificant detail these days, what with there being 7 billion people on the planet.

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