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AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

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Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#321

Post by dis-sys »

ericd wrote: post #301
dis-sys wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are rumors that AMD is not happy with TR2's memory performance as the 4 channel memory controller is the bottleneck, they are probably looking at 8 channel memory option for TR3. ;)

Ha well I wouldn’t complain if they did that. The higher core count TR2s have a bit of a weird performance profile because of the memory channel setup - two of the chiplets have to hop through another chiplet for memory accesses. Is that what you’re referring to?

> Is that what you’re referring to?

yes, they had to introduce that extra hop to workaround the fact that it has 4 less channel compared to the regular 8 channel EPYC.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#322

Post by harry8 »

What is the interthread latency between cores on a ryzen?

Something like: https://gitlab.com/hal88/interthread_latency

I get in the ballpark of 250 cycles on an intel $whatever (it's been pretty stable for a while) for cores on the same package full round trip, (hyperthreading off).

    mean = 255, 247 (ignoring blowouts) 
    max: 4898276 
    min: 93 
    (cyles)

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#324

Post by sharpneli »

m0zg wrote: post #313
sharpneli wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I'm having a remote day yes. Some projects can take literally hours to fully recompile. The more cores, the better. Will also be getting a Ryzen if the singlecore benchmarks show it's reasonable. Bunch of games I play at home tend to absolutely trash single core perf.

Why do you "fully recompile"? Use Google Bazel and never fully recompile anything.

Because debugging and making changes. Trying to get some centralized server to produce just the right combo of Windows sdk and msvc (Just an example) would take even more time.

And then there is the hassle of setting it up for all the possible projects one might work on.

EDIT:

Just some examples. Instead of developing electron application think of making changes to chromium. Instead of depeloping Qt application think of developing Qt itself. Etc etc.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#325

Post by m0zg »

sharpneli wrote: post #324
m0zg wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you "fully recompile"? Use Google Bazel and never fully recompile anything.

Because debugging and making changes. Trying to get some centralized server to produce just the right combo of Windows sdk and msvc (Just an example) would take even more time. And then there is the hassle of setting it up for all the possible projects one might work on. EDIT: Just some examples. Instead of developing electron application think of making changes to chromium. Instead of depeloping Qt application think…

Even so, with a proper build system you shouldn't need to recompile. That said, I don't think Windows has what I'd call a proper build system.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#326

Post by BuckRogers »

josteink wrote: post #189
jdietrich wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But one issue with current AMD cpu is that you have to buy a desktop GPU even when you are not doing any kind of gaming and such. AMD just aren't selling many CPUs to business desktop system integrators, partly due to dubious tactics by Intel to keep them out of the market. If you sell most of your CPUs to enthusiasts, it just doesn't make sense to squander die area on a crappy iGPU. Gamers obviously want a fast GPU…

> AMD just aren't selling many CPUs to business desktop system integrators, partly due to dubious tactics by Intel to keep them out of the market. If you sell most of your CPUs to enthusiasts, it just doesn't make sense to squander die area on a crappy iGPU. I'm a developer, and I want fast build times. I don't need a dedicated GPU for that. Right now I'm squandering money and power on a dedicated GPU which is probab…

I feel the same way and wish all CPUs had at least some rudimentary video output capability. I've always appreciated Intel for that. They've taken a mobile-first / mobile->desktop strategy, and AMD adopted a server-first / server->desktop strategy. Intel's desktop CPUs are a bit of an afterthought, and AMD's mobile (APU) is a bit of an afterthought.

For AMD, what they've done makes the most sense, as fighting Intel in the mobile space is the toughest market to break into. You can get a cheap Geforce 1050 for $130 or so, and with the perk of having great OpenGL/DX drivers to keep anything that you do end up using it for, nice and snappy. I'm in your same boat and use a 2700X and a 1060.

AMD should really have their motherboard vendors add some sort of basic functionality, like the old IGPs.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#327

Post by ksec »

ncmncm wrote: post #317
pedrocr wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we could have the whole languages VM living in Cache When dual-core processors came out someone said you could now have one core run your stuff and another run the anti-virus. That was widely joked about. This feels a little close to that. Having more CPU cache than we recently had RAM ending up being used for programming language overhead.

Agreed. For those of us using VMs, the extra cache in each package is enough for the working set of the systemd we are obligd to run in each VM. Looking back to the 8M total RAM I had on a Mac SE/30, running A/UX Unix and a MacOS GUI comfortably, the sloppiness of modern productions is a disgrace and an embarrassment. What galls is not the wasteful extravagance. It's the failure of imagination that makes such meager,…

Agree with both the comment above, but do we really have a solution?

It is a trade off between Cross Platform, time to market and development resources. And unlike any other scientific and engineering industry, Software Development doesn't even agree on a few industry standards, instead everything is hyped up every 2 years and something new come around and becomes a new "standard". And we keep wasting resources reinventing the flat tire.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#328

Post by sharpneli »

m0zg wrote: post #325
sharpneli wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because debugging and making changes. Trying to get some centralized server to produce just the right combo of Windows sdk and msvc (Just an example) would take even more time. And then there is the hassle of setting it up for all the possible projects one might work on. EDIT: Just some examples. Instead of developing electron application think of making changes to chromium. Instead of depeloping Qt application think…

Even so, with a proper build system you shouldn't need to recompile. That said, I don't think Windows has what I'd call a proper build system.

One needs to recompile with a brand new checkout.

Most of the time buildsystems work. Including one in Visual Studio. But I have never encountered a system that would always work flawlessly. From time to time one gets things like changes not detected or something else going haywire and one has to do make clean and just redo the whole thing.

Another thing is when your'e doing profile guided builds then one has to do a full rebuild after each profiling run.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#329

Post by m0zg »

sharpneli wrote: post #328
m0zg wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, with a proper build system you shouldn't need to recompile. That said, I don't think Windows has what I'd call a proper build system.

One needs to recompile with a brand new checkout. Most of the time buildsystems work. Including one in Visual Studio. But I have never encountered a system that would always work flawlessly. From time to time one gets things like changes not detected or something else going haywire and one has to do make clean and just redo the whole thing. Another thing is when your'e doing profile guided builds then one has to do a…

Not with Bazel (on Linux or Mac at least). It builds everything incrementally. If inputs that go into the build node did not change, they won't be rebuilt. You almost _never_ fully recompile, and with a cache incremental builds almost never take more than a couple of minutes. Google builds everything it runs from source, including things like compilers, runtimes, stdlibs, etc. Imagine if every engineer had to rebuild everything from the kernel up from source on every check-out. That wouldn't work.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#330

Post by Tsiklon »

cl0ckt0wer wrote: post #295
josteink wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AMD just aren't selling many CPUs to business desktop system integrators, partly due to dubious tactics by Intel to keep them out of the market. If you sell most of your CPUs to enthusiasts, it just doesn't make sense to squander die area on a crappy iGPU. I'm a developer, and I want fast build times. I don't need a dedicated GPU for that. Right now I'm squandering money and power on a dedicated GPU which is probab…

You could always get a reburb $15 Radeon from a few years ago if you really don't care about 3d performance. I also considered going with a USB-DisplayPort adapter, but it was more expensive and I wasn't sure how well it would work.

As far as I'm aware, a USB-Displayport adapter will make use of the system's CPU more than a cheap discrete add in card would, factor in the custom drivers that one would have to install (both on Linux and OS X) and for me that would be a non-starter as my sole video output
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