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AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

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Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#301
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too bad, it's a really neat chip line. More PCI-E lanes than a Xeon E5 without the ridiculous premium.

There are rumors that AMD is not happy with TR2's memory performance as the 4 channel memory controller is the bottleneck, they are probably looking at 8 channel memory option for TR3. ;)

Ha well I wouldn’t complain if they did that. The higher core count TR2s have a bit of a weird performance profile because of the memory channel setup - two of the chiplets have to hop through another chiplet for memory accesses. Is that what you’re referring to?

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#302
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Been a couple years since I built a new PC, and it's helpful to have that info for anything I might build soonish.

If you don't know about it, pcpartpicker.com is a fantastic resource for building a new system. It makes researching and comparing a bunch of brands and parts as well as waiting for the best times to buy a breeze.

Yeah, I know about PCPP, used it to research/design my last build. The reason I was asking sbov questions is that I've kinda fallen off the wagon in terms of keeping up with hardware news since I did my last build.

Thanks for the recommendation, though; it really is an awesome resource.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#303
post #289
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a discrete GPU with the same featureset as a modern integrated Intel GPU - with basic desktop features such as 1) being able to decode modern video codecs like HEVC 2) prime Windows and (especially) Linux support or 3) modern video outputs such as HDMI 2.0 - you need to buy a Radeon RX550. This will still set you back more than $80 and add another fan to your build. A Radeon R7 240 from 6 years ago will s…

Even the newest AMD Gpus don't have full VP9 (Youtube) acceleration.

Technically AMD's APUs (the Ryzen 2400G and other CPUs with integrated GPU of the Vega generation) do support it, but for some reason AMD has never enabled this in their discrete cards. Neither have they released a low end Vega discrete card either. They have the tech, but don't seem to be interested much in the low end.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#304
post #298

At close to 300 comments, I am surprised there is no mention of what I thought was the most important and surprise, 32 to 70MB L3 Cache. A lot of people focus on Core and Thread as well as IPC. We already knew what improvement IPC could do, we already knew what we could do 32 Thread. None of these are really new. But 64MB of L3 Cache? In a consumer CPU at a price that I would hardly call expensive ( I would even go o…

>we could have the whole languages VM living in Cache

When dual-core processors came out someone said you could now have one core run your stuff and another run the anti-virus. That was widely joked about. This feels a little close to that. Having more CPU cache than we recently had RAM ending up being used for programming language overhead.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#305
post #255

No mention of it, but the pressure should still be on AMD to open source or allow firmware disable of their Platform "Security" Processor. I would really like to be more enthusiastic for my next build to use something like this, but all my computers are presently trustable in a way new platforms with proprietary coprocessors that haven't seen me_cleaner support cannot achieve. It really sucks to give Intel money - it…

AMD's PSP is ARM TrustZone, there is no way AMD could open it in their current chips, they don't own the IP and ARM is vehemently opposed. Due to the outcry, they are more likely to build their own secure enclave/supervisor processor in the next major rework of Zen, which they would own the IP of.

There are open-source TrustZone implementations (OP-TEE).

AMD could drop Arm and move to a RISC-V based secure enclave. Google is developing OpenTitan as open hardware based on RISC-V.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally everything other than the rare, very specific workloads that are amenable to parallel processing! (This isn't hyperbole.)

There's nothing "rare" and "very specific" about parallel processing, what's "rare, very specific" is the amount of software that's been rewritten/redesigned to take advantage of it so far. Sure, there are inherently -serial workloads, but most of what we use our machines for isn't like that. Parallel processing is not just about performance either but also general stability, a many-core processor can run a lot coole…

>There's nothing "rare" and "very specific" about parallel processing, what's "rare, very specific" is the amount of software that's been rewritten/redesigned to take advantage of it so far.

People have been banging their heads against the 'rewrite this software to take advantage of multiple cores' wall for decades. The lack of progress is telling. For a straightforward example, look at the second half of this Factorio update blog: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-215

Factorio is a sim game that you would think on first consideration would hugely benefit from a multithreaded design. It turns out that doing so is actually slower(!). And although this example is pulled from a game, it is essentially the same story again and again, no matter what the subject.

Now consider the second half of your statement- that the main benefit of multi-core processing is that it provides more CPUs, so that if any one gets choked, the general environment continues to operate.

(Which is true, and a great advantage of having a multi-core CPU.)

But consider a little deeper, too. If the first, best defense we have regarding multi-core designs is that they are simply more single-cores to have on hand, what does that say about the relative value of parallel processing vs. single-thread performance? Inherently serial workloads dominate across the board, in every field. The few parallel problems we have, we have because people have put a lot of brain sweat in to figuring out what, exactly, we can even do with all these cores lying around.

Meanwhile, there are entire classes of problems that are simply waiting for better single-thread performance before we can move ahead.

This is a very real problem, and it isn't going away.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just based on the previous gen benchmark, the perfomance/clock of Zen+ cpu is better htan intel offering. What makes you say it isnt so?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-9... this page compares 9900K and 2700X. 9900K should work at 4700 MHz with all cores loaded. 2700x should work at 4300 MHz. So the difference is roughly 10%. And Intel in most benchmarks scores more than 10%.

Those benchmarks were done 3 or 4 Meltdown microcode mitigations ago... the problem with Intel CPUs is, they become slower the longer they're exposed to security researchers.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#308
post #298

At close to 300 comments, I am surprised there is no mention of what I thought was the most important and surprise, 32 to 70MB L3 Cache. A lot of people focus on Core and Thread as well as IPC. We already knew what improvement IPC could do, we already knew what we could do 32 Thread. None of these are really new. But 64MB of L3 Cache? In a consumer CPU at a price that I would hardly call expensive ( I would even go o…

Thanks for the heads-up - I totally missed this "detail" when I skimmed through the article & specs table earlier today.

And just in case that somebody missed it, here is again the link to the PDF "What Every Programmer Should Know About Memory" by Ulrich Drepper...

https://people.freebsd.org/~lstewart/articles/cpumemory.pdf

...which was posted here sometimes earlier this year and which talks about every detail of RAM and L1/2/3 cache access times and architectures etc... . Very heavy for me (read so far 25%) but as well very interesting.

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#309
post #298

At close to 300 comments, I am surprised there is no mention of what I thought was the most important and surprise, 32 to 70MB L3 Cache. A lot of people focus on Core and Thread as well as IPC. We already knew what improvement IPC could do, we already knew what we could do 32 Thread. None of these are really new. But 64MB of L3 Cache? In a consumer CPU at a price that I would hardly call expensive ( I would even go o…

This! I usually run code where I'm cache limited and adding more processes/threads slows down everything! At 64 MB of L3 cache, I'd be able to run things way faster[0] on image processing tasks!

[0] for the curious reader, I've two machines: a 3MB-L3 i5 and a 20MB-L3 Xeon. So id't be looking at 20x and 3x improvements -- without taking into account other architectural improvemnents, like not-underclocked-AVX2, and the GHz count

Re: AMD Ryzen 3000 announced

#310
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. What build times are you seeing for clean builds of the rust toolchain itself? Curious to benchmark against my 2700x. I'd imagine near linear scaling with the core count. I think the 3900x might be a happy middle ground. I'm guessing we would probably see (with the increased IPC, core count, and core clock) like 70-80% increases over a 2700x in these kinds of multithreaded workloads. So probably slightly more t…

3900x looks fantastic on paper. In general, if the Ryzen stuff is sufficient for your needs, it's a better value. You pay a big premium for the Threadripper boards (and big case and big cooling solution). So in that sense, the 3900x is definitely in a sweet spot at the top of the Ryzen range. Tradeoffs: threadripper boards officially support ECC; Ryzen boards are hit or miss. TR boards tend to be priced around $300 w…

3800X is "gamer priced" :).

I think the 3900x is in a great position to provide the best of both gaming and productivity. Extremely aggressively priced at $500 for the horsepower it seems to give you.

I suspect there is going to be a 16 core 3950x later in the year. Maybe with slightly lower single core frequencies. But maybe 20-25% greater multicore performance.

I bet they are delaying that to keep something up their sleeves when Intel responds. And to not totally cannibalize TR prior to releasing TR3.

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