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If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

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21–30 of 120 posts

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#21
I like what he says here, but I note that this particular version of his blog doesn't have comments on it. My guess is that the site has changed since 2011.

He makes a really good point that there are lessons to be learned from, "disciplines like urban planning, zoning regulations, crowd control, effective and humane policing, and the simple practices it takes to stage an effective public event".

But I think what he's leaving out is hierarchy. In 2011, I think a "moderator class" and a "commenter class" was all you needed. But if you want people to treat each other well online, you need something more than that. There needs to be stakes. There needs to be value in building up your standing in the community, there needs to be something to be gained and lost in exchange for the community policing itself.

Right now, a community like Twitter has a sort of chaotic hierarchy. There is the average user, the influencer, the blue checkmark, and the Twitter employee/algorithm doing moderation. Who is answerable to who? How does one climb up the hierarchy? What value does a blue checkmark have in moderating an influencer? Can they? Are average users ultimately incentivized to be dicks in order to get the attention of influencers and blue checkmarks?

Maybe it's time for communities as big as Twitter to make some decisions about this and tame their userbase with more rigid and well-defined hierarchies.

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#22
post #10

This post is more reasonable for smaller curated communities, but as we can see from, well, every large social website that exists currently, it can be difficult to scale. I'm curious what the other thinks the solution would be to an obvious example like Twitter. When a website consists of so many groups of users that everyone's definition of 'assholes' contradicts the others, you find that banning them gets to be pr…

Posting on a website should be a right, not a privilege. Having trouble moderating so much content? Limit the amount of content that can be posted, and make users earn ranks to be able to post more (so there’s an incentive to play by the rules as to not lose the high-ranking account). Speaking of standards of “asshole” being different between communities, well, the website should have a set of rules/guidelines defini…

That is their right, to make the service (not necessarily a website) limit the amount of content, require or not require registrations, have guidelines or not, to determine who gets to post. But if you do it badly, it can get obstructive.

If you have many different ones then you can see what is who like to post on what, I suppose.

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#24
post #18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no, when's the last time you've actually seen the rules enforced?

All the time. I see dang smoothing things out like almost daily. You can also turn on “showdead” in your profile options, and maybe you’ll become more aware of it.

I do keep it on, because I want to see all messages even if most people hate it. Fortunately, they do not delete the messages permanently in such case, unlike some others do. (I also use custom CSS so that no messages are grey; all of them are black. If I can, I would also want to change the sort order of messages so that it is based on time (perhaps, of the most recent nested reply) rather than karma (if that is what is done; it doesn't seem to be sorted by time).)

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#25
I think it depends on the website you're wanting to run..

I was part of a now-dead "threaded message board", which had a somewhat cliquey view of what should/shouldn't be posted. In the evening when the moderators were away, the discussion became more interesting as it strayed off-topic.

Eventually the community wanted 'to fork' so I decided to build something myself. I'm not IT trained, so first version was PL/SQL on Oracle - all I knew. v2 was the product of me buying an O'Reilly PHP/MySQL book (I still have 'platypus' somewhere).

People came.

First few years were a mess. The more technically literate people used to hack me for fun - but then would confess and provide security tips.

As the mood took me I'd add features, and then if they became troublesome fixed/killed them.

The odd person would arrive and cause trouble, and I'd have fun working out how to make them stop. (correlate logins with emails, password, IPs, browser fingerprints etc). Then maybe experiment with hiding troll-posts from the other users, whilst displaying it to the troll, who thought they'd been ignored - etc etc. Or maybe auto-embed some very dodgy zero-sized images in their feed, if I know they were going through a company/university proxy.

After a while it just all got quiet and relatively happy, and it's been puttering along since 2003.

It's currently got over 9 Million posts, a load of marriages and children - and a few deaths with some 'best-of posts' for the departed.

I'm fully aware this isn't impressive as a potential unicorn, but I feel there's a bazillion other little sites, like mine, happily puttering along out there that are overlooked.

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#26
post #10

This post is more reasonable for smaller curated communities, but as we can see from, well, every large social website that exists currently, it can be difficult to scale. I'm curious what the other thinks the solution would be to an obvious example like Twitter. When a website consists of so many groups of users that everyone's definition of 'assholes' contradicts the others, you find that banning them gets to be pr…

Having worked at Twitter on abuse, I think that Twitter could do far more. They've gotten better, but it's still trivially easy to evade bans, the moderation decisions are frequently terrible, and there are a zillion other things wrong.

That said, I think an ad-funded global discussion is impossible. You can't do good user moderation with that little money (~$0.10 per user per day total revenue, with a tiny fraction of that going to abuse prevention). I think Twitter should allow people to create semi-private spaces, zones for discussion where users can be much more firm about moderation. It should also make collaborative blocking and muting much more effective.

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#27
post #10

This post is more reasonable for smaller curated communities, but as we can see from, well, every large social website that exists currently, it can be difficult to scale. I'm curious what the other thinks the solution would be to an obvious example like Twitter. When a website consists of so many groups of users that everyone's definition of 'assholes' contradicts the others, you find that banning them gets to be pr…

> This post is more reasonable for smaller curated communities, but as we can see from, well, every large social website that exists currently, it can be difficult to scale. I'm curious what the other thinks the solution would be to an obvious example like Twitter.

One solution would be to not jam the entire world's conversations into a couple of gigantic, one-size-fits-all platforms.

You ask what solution would work for a platform like Twitter. Consider that the problem may simply be that Twitter exists at all.

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#28
post #18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no, when's the last time you've actually seen the rules enforced?

All the time. I see dang smoothing things out like almost daily. You can also turn on “showdead” in your profile options, and maybe you’ll become more aware of it.

I have "show dead" turned on and most of the time the same account posting dead comment after dead comment keeps it up for weeks.

Re: If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault (2011)

#30
post #25

I think it depends on the website you're wanting to run.. I was part of a now-dead "threaded message board", which had a somewhat cliquey view of what should/shouldn't be posted. In the evening when the moderators were away, the discussion became more interesting as it strayed off-topic. Eventually the community wanted 'to fork' so I decided to build something myself. I'm not IT trained, so first version was PL/SQL o…

what’s the site
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