This guy probably would have gotten an actual discussion if he had worded his argument a little more friendly.
Please don’t theme our apps
111–120 of 206 posts
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#112The whole letter sounds weird when talking about free software. Software freedom main benefit is that the user can change the software. Theming it is probably the most accessible form of modification and should be celebrated. Asking not to theme is contrary to the free software ethos itself. The situation is even more tricky as what is being modified is not even the software itself but the system dependencies. Essent…
This isn't about the user theming. It's about distros theming. There currently is a growing conflict between upstream developers and distributions, because some of their interactions and dependencies bare badly managed. For example, upstream maintainers see an influx of bug reports and angry users due to bugs, where the distributions are at fault. Sources for this can be changes to the code that the distributions mak…
I guess a radical solution would be to require (through trademark law) to force distros to brand the apps differently (name and icon) so that bug reports end up where they belong.
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
The letter is about distributions not end users. It says end users are allowed to do as they wish. So that accessibility concern is covered.
It says distributions should not theme because it doesn't work. If theming doesn't work when a distribution does it, it doesn't work either when an end user does it for accessibility.
"Doesn't work" is far too broad a statement. An end user might choose a theme that works fine for the handful of particular applications they care about; yet that same theme might disrupt many other applications on the same distribution.
End users can make that choice with regard to the extremely limited set of applications and use-cases that matter to them. A distribution has a far wider landscape to consider.
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isn't about the user theming. It's about distros theming. There currently is a growing conflict between upstream developers and distributions, because some of their interactions and dependencies bare badly managed. For example, upstream maintainers see an influx of bug reports and angry users due to bugs, where the distributions are at fault. Sources for this can be changes to the code that the distributions mak…
I guess a radical solution would be to require (through trademark law) to force distros to brand the apps differently (name and icon) so that bug reports end up where they belong.
Debian used to have to do this with Firefox and Thunderbird.
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#115> GTK Stylesheets can make applications look broken, and even unusable. Bugs are bad, yes. > Icon Themes can change icon metaphors, leading to interfaces with icons that don’t express what the developer intended. That is not a problem if you use icons for the purpose they are intended for. > Changing an app’s icon denies the developer the possibility to control their brand. Good. My computer is not your billboard. Co…
Oof. When I read the headline I though it was a call for app developers to stop making a bunch of custom-themed BS when the built-in widgets and styles will do, saving themselves money and the users headaches. This is the opposite of that, and, you're right, is nonsense.
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's unreasonable to expect a developer to support third-party modifications to the software--especially when that software and support are free.
Good thing theming doesn't modify the software. It's reasonable to expect a developer to support software being used in an environment that does not 100% match what they use (to the extent it's reasonable to expect support in the first place).
> Good thing theming doesn't modify the software.
Changing the UI changes the software from the user perspective.
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#117Color themes seem like a brilliant idea until hit the point where your custom control needs this one extra distinct highlight or background color to convey state. Then you're out of luck. You only have bad options left: opt out of system theming and enforce your own or hardcode a color (or put it into the settings dialog) and accept that it breaks with any non-default theme out there because no user will take time to…
There are two solutions to this:
1) use offset colours, like specifying to move 10% in Hue off the theme colour.
2) specify all foreground + background colours and admit that this is special and won't conform to any user or distro theming
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t take issue with people expressing opinions, or even pointing out that theming is a platform feature. But I do take issue with attacking developers who write applications for free, and contribute to the Linux ecosystem, for making a reasonable request to platform developers.
It is not a reasonable request, though. End users want the ability to theme their system, and you cannot expect each end user to make their own themes. People rely on distributions for this to happen. I understand that the devs do not want to be responsible for bugs stemming from broken themes, but this is the wrong solution. Ultimately the solution is a better theme API, not this which would essentially stop custom…
It doesn't matter if the end users want the ability to theme their system—if the software they run is not designed to be themed, then it's not designed to be themed.
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
It says distributions should not theme because it doesn't work. If theming doesn't work when a distribution does it, it doesn't work either when an end user does it for accessibility.
"Doesn't work" is far too broad a statement. An end user might choose a theme that works fine for the handful of particular applications they care about; yet that same theme might disrupt many other applications on the same distribution. End users can make that choice with regard to the extremely limited set of applications and use-cases that matter to them. A distribution has a far wider landscape to consider.
> "Doesn't work" is far too broad a statement.
If you consider something that does not work reliably to work, you're right. I don't.
A distribution has to consider more applications and use cases, but it also has more resources. Doing things at the distribution level is much more efficient than each user doing their own thing, that's why they exist.
Re: Please don’t theme our apps
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again, this letter is not aimed at end users. "If you like to tinker with your own system, that’s fine with us."
That paragraph continues. The letter is absolutely also aimed at end users: > If you like to tinker with your own system, that’s fine with us. However, if you change things like stylesheets and icons, you should be aware that you’re in unsupported territory. Any issues you encounter should be reported to the theme developer, not the app developer. Just not with the same vehemence as its message directed at distros.
Read that quote extract again—"If you like to tinker with your own system"—that is clearly saying to the distro developer to understand the distinction between your personal preferences and what you might distribute to others.
If the letter was aimed at end users, that qualifier would have been redundant. Therefore the letter is not aimed at end users.