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America is turning against facial-recognition software

economist.com

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Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#111

Post by toephu2 »

xena wrote: post #2

Good. This kind of software is a mirror to the data fed into it. People on the edges of society (that the people making the mirror might either intentionally or accidentally ignore) will get fucked over tremendously by this technology. We should put a complete ban on it. Even if it means gimping my photo organization programs.

You have never been a victim of a crime have you?

I'm pretty sure if you were, and the crime was caught on camera, your position on facial-recognition software would change.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#112

Post by toephu2 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #96

This backlash is the silver lining to China’s shortsighted implementations of this technology to their world renowned police state.

This may be an unpopular opinion here but on the flip side have you been to China lately?

Street crime (including petty thievery) has dropped immensely.

Any city in China is much safer than Oakland.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#113

Post by majormajor »

PunchTornado wrote: post #110
briatx wrote: post #66

> Earlier this year the Washington Post reported that many small police departments were abandoning body-worn-camera programmes because of the cost. > Although the cameras are cheap, officers can generate 15 gigabytes of video per shift; storage costs mount. Police unions often oppose body-worn cameras, fearing they imperil their members by giving superior officers licence to search them for punishable behaviour. >Ot…

would you want a body camera at your work? You wouldn't I'm sure. Don't blame them for looking for their interest. It's someone else's job to (politicians) to legislate the use of it.

> Don't blame them for looking for their interest.

Blame everybody for only looking out for their own interest, from scammers to corrupt politicians to short-sighted investors to oil execs. Otherwise it's just status-quo infinite whack-a-mole and we see how well that's going.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#114

Post by ashelmire »

toephu2 wrote: post #111
xena wrote: post #2

Good. This kind of software is a mirror to the data fed into it. People on the edges of society (that the people making the mirror might either intentionally or accidentally ignore) will get fucked over tremendously by this technology. We should put a complete ban on it. Even if it means gimping my photo organization programs.

You have never been a victim of a crime have you? I'm pretty sure if you were, and the crime was caught on camera, your position on facial-recognition software would change.

Or you'll just get harassed more as a black person[1].

Funny enough (actually the opposite of funny), the systems used by law enforcement are designed to create more false positives, which then leaves it up to law enforcement to decide which "leads" to follow up on. This will certainly be used to validate abusive behavior.

Additionally, facial recognition is used in some countries right now to silence political dissidents[2]. If you think that can't or won't happen in the US, I'd suggest you look at how activists have been treated in the past (beaten, arrested, and sometimes killed).

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/technology/facial-recogni...

2. https://www.eff.org/pages/face-recognition

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#115

Post by mooseburger »

toephu2 wrote: post #112
mensetmanusman wrote: post #96

This backlash is the silver lining to China’s shortsighted implementations of this technology to their world renowned police state.

This may be an unpopular opinion here but on the flip side have you been to China lately? Street crime (including petty thievery) has dropped immensely. Any city in China is much safer than Oakland.

Hasn't that always been the case in China?

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#116

Post by antisthenes »

PunchTornado wrote: post #110
briatx wrote: post #66

> Earlier this year the Washington Post reported that many small police departments were abandoning body-worn-camera programmes because of the cost. > Although the cameras are cheap, officers can generate 15 gigabytes of video per shift; storage costs mount. Police unions often oppose body-worn cameras, fearing they imperil their members by giving superior officers licence to search them for punishable behaviour. >Ot…

would you want a body camera at your work? You wouldn't I'm sure. Don't blame them for looking for their interest. It's someone else's job to (politicians) to legislate the use of it.

What a poor analogy. My job doesn't have anything to do with being the sole arbiter of violence and defusing dangerous situations at the trust and expense of taxpayers and local citizens.

If they don't want accountability as police officers, they can go find another job.

> Don't blame them for looking for their interest.

I can, I will and I will argue that it is my moral obligation to ensure that the public servants are acting in the best interest of the public as a citizen. But thanks for your concern.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#117

Post by chr1 »

xena wrote: post #38
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with your sentiment but I don't agree with a ban. Prohibition doesn't work. You should be able to use it but the legal risks and liability you open yourself up to by using it should be strong enough to deter its use except when there truly is no substitute. Asbestos comes to mind as an example. People (often on HN) often run in circles and scream about the sky falling because "OMG it's not banned" but t…

For instance, I am transgender. This kind of technology would allow them to identify "masculine" features of my face that I didn't ask for. This could cause me to be profiled as male, regardless of what my court order or personal preferences say. This kind of technology is fundamentally dangerous to people who do not fit cleanly into the rigid caste-like boxes that are used to categorize people.

This is equivalent to asking to ban glasses to prevent short-sighted people from identifying "masculine" features. If people can learn to handle the information they see, they can teach the same to the algorithms they use. So while i agree that there are dangers, i can't agree that banning face recognition is the solution to that.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#118

Post by chr1 »

paganel wrote: post #13
diafygi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so I have good arguments when talking to someone about this specific point, can you or someone else please go into more detail on why this will happen?

Not the OP by technology like this will explicitly make racial profiling legal again, because the power that be will hide behind the decisions taken by algorithms: “The computer told us to stop and search this black person’s car, it wasn’t us, the computer is smart, we were just following the computer’s orders”.

That's why there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_explanation

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#119

Post by somatic »

xena wrote: post #89
asdkhadsj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon the ignorant question, but is there an accepted "standard" for pronouns when someone identifies themself as you did? Which is to say, if you say you're a "trans woman", am I able to infer that your desired gender pronoun is female?

The best way to know for sure is to ask them instead of making any assumptions.

Truly we have transcended parody.
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