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Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

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Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#271

Post by Tor3 »

blub wrote: post #241
Tor3 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but rather are the genetic conglomerate of their ancestors (which is hard to argue against) and thus links in a chain But that's exactly it. It's not like that. Or shouldn't be. That's not what makes a person a part of a group (town, city, region, country, etc). It's a constraining, and wrong way of looking at things. It's something to grow out of. Heck, in my hometown we consider someone as 'from' this town (to tr…

It seems to me that disturbingly many people (predominantly western white men, I'd hazard, but women aren't spared either) are afflicted by a syndrome which makes them truly believe that race, ethnicity or nationality don't matter and that we're all the same . Not that we should have the same rights and obligations, but that we're the same with some cute, "enriching" but irrelevant exceptions such as music, food, etc…

On the contrary - we're not all the same, we are each of us individuals. And that's the point, I think. We're individuals, and all of us different. We're not just a sample of some stereotype of where our ancestors came from.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#272

Post by world32 »

GreaterFool wrote: post #18

> but it’s no longer quite right to call it homogeneous Are you sure? Japan is maybe 99% homogeneous? I live in central Tokyo and I can go on for days and days without seeing a foreigner! > it will inevitably introduce social strains Sadly, yes. I've observed this on few occasions.

Can we please stop with the "I see lots of foreigners", "I don't see any foreigners" anecdotes!? Seriously, I expected better from HN posters. From this article we can see that there are 2.73 million foreigners in Japan:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/03/22/national/number...

And with a population of 126.8 million people that means that 2% of the population are foreign.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#273

Post by omot »

bassman9000 wrote: post #260
omot wrote: post #178

As a naturalized US citizen, I had to give up my Japanese citizenship. It was a hard decision to make since half my immediate family is still Japanese and I still love Japan. In part I never forgave Japan that they forced me to make this decision. Which is why I'm excited for a more ethnically diverse Japan. As a resident of the Bay Area I only see diversity as an advantage of introducing new thoughts and creativity.…

If it changes too much, will it be the same Japan you left and loved?

Its probably unconditional love. Japan is like family for me.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#274

Post by omot »

spookybones wrote: post #264
omot wrote: post #178

As a naturalized US citizen, I had to give up my Japanese citizenship. It was a hard decision to make since half my immediate family is still Japanese and I still love Japan. In part I never forgave Japan that they forced me to make this decision. Which is why I'm excited for a more ethnically diverse Japan. As a resident of the Bay Area I only see diversity as an advantage of introducing new thoughts and creativity.…

Serious question: Hasn’t the the Bay Area become the antithesis of diversity and killed the local culture? I don’t just mean black culture, but also the beat culture, the Italian neighborhoods, etc.

Maybe in some bubbles. I lived in Utah and I frequently visit Japan. Comparatively its a no brainer, the Bay Area is way more diverse.

When people talk about gentrification and how local culture is disappearing, from my perspective and historically speaking, the Bay Area is a place of constant change. People forget that this use to be one of the prime destination during the gold rush and the great depression. The Golden Gate Bridge welcomes immigrants that came in through the Pacific. The cities names are all in Spanish, because this used to be Mexican territory. San Bruno was used as a site for a internment camp for the Japanese.

To me the era were living in right now is just another gold rush where skilled workers and hungry entrepreneur arrive hoping to strike it rich. This wave of migration happens to be predominantly white and Asian. Is that antithesis of diversity? I personally don't think so, its another wave of change in history. Like Japan trying to preserve its traditions, I understand the fear of change, but I think we need to embrace it and try to mitigate any problems that change may bring.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#275

Post by sctb »

sprash wrote: post #189
duxup wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know immigrants have nothing of value to offer to the Japanese people. I don't know how that makes sense. People can't offer people anything outside of some described cultural boundaries?

Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. Foreigners would drag down the average which mathematically means nothing else than effectively extracting resources from the host society. The exchange of ideas can always happen via tourism, Internet, business or whatever. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with the exchange of ideas…

Please don't do nationalistic flamewar here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#276

Post by gmanley »

hh3k0 wrote: post #256
blub wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that disturbingly many people (predominantly western white men, I'd hazard, but women aren't spared either) are afflicted by a syndrome which makes them truly believe that race, ethnicity or nationality don't matter and that we're all the same . Not that we should have the same rights and obligations, but that we're the same with some cute, "enriching" but irrelevant exceptions such as music, food, etc…

> It seems to me that disturbingly many people (predominantly western white men, I'd hazard, but women aren't spared either) are afflicted by a syndrome which makes them truly believe that race, ethnicity or nationality don't matter and that we're all the same. I believe that the Chinese call such individuals "Baizuo".

I really don't think you should be perpetuating derogatory and racially charged terms like this on HN.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#277

Post by chr1 »

cthalupa wrote: post #68
themagician wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can’t afford to have kids. Maybe if young people didn’t have to spend a huge portion of their paycheck supporting old people they could afford kids. The older generation doesn’t want immigrants. The older generation votes against tax increases. The older generation does everything they can to keep home prices high. Then they demand no one cut their entitlements. All take, no give. It’s not surprising people ar…

With Japan, it's not solely (or perhaps even primarily) a matter of not being able to afford kids. Even in Tokyo the fantastic public transport means you can live in one of the more inexpensive wards and still commute basically anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. People aren't even dating in Japan, though. Marriage rates are way down, people aren't having sex, etc. Even the non-sexual aspects of relationships ha…

Perhaps they should invest more into developing artificial womb https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/14/human-babies-born-using-an-ar...

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#278

Post by chr1 »

mantas wrote: post #89
TheChaplain wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids. The primary reason as I understand it for the lack of kids is simply because it's a trap for women as it is now. Maternity- and child care leave are too short. There are extreme shortage of daycare for infants and pre-school children, forcing women to stay home and even give up on their career until the child is old enough to go to/from school themselves. And having 2-3 children pretty much kills any career.

Yet what I see around is men being against having kids. While women do somewhat support the idea. It's definitely not a one-sided issue. But yes, infrastructure is definitely a massive issue. I wonder what would happen if resources that Western europe countries pour into migration would be put for fixing birth rate. Push propaganda on all fronts, put shit ton of money into infrastructure, install new cultural norms..…

Propaganda usually doesn't work or has the opposite effect.

It may be better to pass a law that would link pension of old people to tax paid by young people who have chosen them. This will make having many successful children profitable again. And will restore the role of a family, which is artificially lowered by social services.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#279

Post by Apocryphon »

jlawson wrote: post #269
krapp wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Japan has been exchanging cultural and genetic material with the rest of East Asia for thousands of years, and the West for centuries. Even during the Sakoku period, they were trading with the world through the port at Dejima. Pretending it's an island untouched by and uninterested in foreign culture is changing it to fit one's imagination. Someone may well have "bent to your will" a bit had you put in a bit…

Noone thinks it's an island untouched by the world. But a small degree of foreign influence over thousands of years, carried out by mutual trade of objects and information, just isn't the same as the kind of mass immigration seen in the West, where the whole population becomes a minority in less than a lifetime. Such a thing has never happened in Japan in a thousand years; not even close. (It did happen before that,…

Again, just because the current Japanese government has lifted some restrictions does not mean mass migration is inevitable. It is tiresome to find Japanophiles who think they know better than actual Japanese people about their future.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#280

Post by blub »

krapp wrote: post #251
blub wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Trump, Brexit and the turmoil in Europe we're way past just "opposing" multiculturalism. Multiculturalism seems to be imploding. I was and am not fascinated by Japan, and to be honest I didn't always enjoy my visit there. It was frustrating to feel so... foreign. I complained about them not speaking English and was annoyed that I couldn't even read a simple sign. And yet, looking back I cherish that time and a f…

And yet Japan has been exchanging cultural and genetic material with the rest of East Asia for thousands of years, and the West for centuries. Even during the Sakoku period, they were trading with the world through the port at Dejima. Pretending it's an island untouched by and uninterested in foreign culture is changing it to fit one's imagination. Someone may well have "bent to your will" a bit had you put in a bit…

Didn't have the impression that it's untouched or uninterested by foreign culture.

It seemed to me that they are, but at the same time managed to maintain an independent "personality" and adapt the imported things.

I'd argue that most of Europe has been westernized and English is widely spoken. This doesn't seem to be the case there, or at least it's not so visible.

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