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China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

globaltimes.cn

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Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#111

Post by anoncake »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #92
anoncake wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Replacing 225 mph trains with 400 mph maglevs should be worth it, especially on long routes like the 800 mile trip between Shanghai and Beijing. That's 2h vs 3.5h, not taking into account acceleration. Time on a train can be used productively, so it isn't lost. Taking opportunity costs into account, it may or may not be worth it. I'm also not sure if 225 mph is the physical limit of conventional trains. Also, faste…

Its not just about the passenger. There have been historical increases (geometric increases) in the economy each time the speed of commerce improves. Horse (4mph) vs ox(2mph); steamship vs sail; scheduled steamship service vs sail-when-full; fixed-price postage vs line-up-at-the-post-office; transcontinental railway. Heck even FedEx was a game changer. And its not just passengers, its cargo too. Imagine a delivery se…

In the past, faster transportation also made communication faster. This isn't the case anymore. There are also diminishing returns.

> Imagine a delivery service that can offer 5 shipments a day vs 4 because the trains are faster.

Unfortunately, we are far from the point where we have so few problems left that this is the most effective use of resources.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#112

Post by cantankerous »

melling wrote: post #46
GorgeRonde wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High speed train works well in France (and it's just 300km/h) because the country is small. Australia is huge. And so is the US. This would make sense along coasts though but you wouldn't be able to cross the country from sea to sea in a few hours of course. What's good with trains is that you can hop in at the very last moment (when the bell rings, happened to me a couple times) and the train stops in the center of…

High-speed rail also works well in China. It’s the same size as the United States, which is about the size of Australia. There are only 25 million people in Australia though.

China's population is concentrated in one part of the country. That makes it easier to serve them more efficiently with mass transit. This isn't true for the United States. The population resides on the coasts, which you can serve with high-speed rail, but connecting the two coasts with the inland population centers via rail is a much, much bigger project.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#113

Post by makomk »

GorgeRonde wrote: post #11
tty2300 wrote: post #2

I really wish we had high speed rail in Australia. I'd pick a 600km/h train over a plane any day.

High speed train works well in France (and it's just 300km/h) because the country is small. Australia is huge. And so is the US. This would make sense along coasts though but you wouldn't be able to cross the country from sea to sea in a few hours of course. What's good with trains is that you can hop in at the very last moment (when the bell rings, happened to me a couple times) and the train stops in the center of…

Note that, as I understand it, the security checks and queues for Chinese high-speed trains are comparable to those required at airports elsewhere if not worse.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#114

Post by makomk »

anoncake wrote: post #96
mdendura wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't that down to Deutsche Bahn having lots problems with funding, industrial action etc?

The problems with it are: - It was split up. For example, the tracks and the rolling stock are owned by different companies. All these companies are owned by a holding and all use the DB brand, but they independently try to make a profit. That makes sense to economists trying to let the market organize as much as possible, but not to railway employees trying to run a railway. For example: before, the Bundesbahn built…

Note that EU rules require Deutsche Bahn and every other European train network to be split up in this way, with all the problems it entails. Germany bent the rules quite a bit over the years to keep the operation of its railways as tightly integrated as it could, but it couldn't last. The European Commission is pretty unhappy about the fact they're even under the same holding company.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#115

Post by anoncake »

makomk wrote: post #114
anoncake wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems with it are: - It was split up. For example, the tracks and the rolling stock are owned by different companies. All these companies are owned by a holding and all use the DB brand, but they independently try to make a profit. That makes sense to economists trying to let the market organize as much as possible, but not to railway employees trying to run a railway. For example: before, the Bundesbahn built…

Note that EU rules require Deutsche Bahn and every other European train network to be split up in this way, with all the problems it entails. Germany bent the rules quite a bit over the years to keep the operation of its railways as tightly integrated as it could, but it couldn't last. The European Commission is pretty unhappy about the fact they're even under the same holding company.

You're right, the federal government is not to blame for that. Thanks for the reminder.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#116

Post by anoncake »

theyinwhy wrote: post #21
[deleted] wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

That's because DB is really bad. Everyone in Europe knows how bad DB is. It has nothing to do with high speed trains.

You can't just say DB is really bad without putting it in relation to their prices.

That would let them get away too easily.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#117

Post by melling »

cantankerous wrote: post #112
melling wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-speed rail also works well in China. It’s the same size as the United States, which is about the size of Australia. There are only 25 million people in Australia though.

China's population is concentrated in one part of the country. That makes it easier to serve them more efficiently with mass transit. This isn't true for the United States. The population resides on the coasts, which you can serve with high-speed rail, but connecting the two coasts with the inland population centers via rail is a much, much bigger project.

Yes, this excuse has been given for the past 50 years. Usually, in reference to Europe.

That might explain why they’re building 25,000 miles of high-speed rail in China, but it doesn’t address why the US has zero.

You’re being sort of vague with the numbers of course.

If you actually look at population densities in Spain, for example, and compare them to California or New York, what do you think we’d find?

For some reason, people like yourself want to average Montana, North Dakota, California, and New York. The US does not have a uniform population density.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#118

Post by anoncake »

endoftime5 wrote: post #81
ben_w wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t know that. But then again, I only moved to Berlin late last year and I came from the UK, which is much much worse.

I always hear my German colleagues complain about DB but having taken UK trains for a few years I can’t fault DB.

Complaining is just something Germans do though.

We have a saying: "Not complaining is enough praise."

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#119

Post by gnode »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #66
gnode wrote: post #29

The cabin is interesting. There doesn't seem to be much visibility through the windows. I guess at such speeds the driver can only rely on information feeds from far up ahead, and there's little advantage to being able to see with the naked eye. Large windows would probably make it less safe in the event of flying debris too. It makes me wonder why not get rid of them all together and make the cabin like a tank. To g…

That's a good point, wonder if they can even open the side windows to look out? I think the windows on trains generally serve to give situational awareness at the station, once you are up to speed reacting to unexpected impediments isn't so time critical since the train isn't likely to stop fast enough anyway.

Reacting to things is still important and time critical. You just can't react to anything in sight. Instead the things you can react to are data and camera feeds from far up ahead. What are the other trains doing? Did the next junction switch successfully?

I think that raises a question of: what is the point of having a driver on the train? Why not have people in a control room drive the trains, coordinating the system as a whole? Arguably this is already the case, with some trains automatically stopping in cases of signal violation. Maybe the reason is simply that passengers would rather trust a driver whose life is invested along with theirs.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#120

Post by dymk »

_pmf_ wrote: post #60
christkv wrote: post #6

In three years they developed the technology needed, more likely just ripped off the tech from Siemens on the Shanghai line.

Isn't it time to lay off the "thieving slit eyes" narrative?

Ah yes, accuse those who want China to not steal technology as actually just being racist.
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