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The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

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Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#121
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app ecosystem is a mess on AOSP. It feels like google just uses it to show a faux openness but there is no way that a non-enthusiast will get the experience they have in one of the 2 (formerly 3) major brand app stores. And that's really what this is about: app ecosystems. Making a good OS is easy, but getting mindshare/appshare is difficult (as microsoft learned the hard way). AOSP makes no difference I think. I…

Europe could disallow preintalled app stores so everyone can install their own app store of choice.

Wouldn't help. The only 2 viable stores out there are the apple and google official ones.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#122
post #52

The article links to an interesting view on how even AOSP is a no-go for Huawei: https://www.xda-developers.com/analysis-huawei-aosp-google-b... What I find interesting is that Apache Licensed software can be relicensed even in proprietary form (as long as you make it a derivative work, with your derivative bits with a proprietary license), thus the easy way out seems to be to have a non-US entity make a proprietary…

> What I find interesting is that Apache Licensed software can be relicensed even in proprietary form (as long as you make it a derivative work, with your derivative bits with a proprietary license), thus the easy way out seems to be to have a non-US entity make a proprietary fork of AOSP. I do not see a legal reason why this company would not be able to sell AOSP to Huawei under these conditions.

IANAL, but: any such fork would remain a Derivative Work of AOSP in which Google would hold some copyright. When Huawei came to redistribute it, they would need licenses from all the copyright holders - this company, Google, any other contributors. Normally this does not matter: the Apache license states "each Contributor hereby grants You...", and You is defined as "an individual or Legal Entity exercising permissions granted by this License".

No doubt the US government can enforce whatever capricious fines it likes within the US. But I find it hard to imagine a European court finding Huawei guilty of copyright infringement for distributing Google work that came with a clear, simple license granting them permission to distribute. If the US government wants to say that Google can't grant that permission, that's between Google and the USG. And given that the Apache license states that the grant of permission is "perpetual, ..., irrevocable" and came with a copy of AOSP that Huawei has no doubt downloaded and read years before the current crisis, trying to revoke that permission now doesn't work either.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#123
post #8
post #5

Yeah, and it also reveals what the world would look like if Windows phone won instead of android. Atleast for Android you have AOSP, which is atleast somewhat open source. If Windows phone and iOS were the only two alternatives, a ban on a phone company like huwaei would be a death sentence. Can't do much with windows or iOS.

The app ecosystem is a mess on AOSP. It feels like google just uses it to show a faux openness but there is no way that a non-enthusiast will get the experience they have in one of the 2 (formerly 3) major brand app stores. And that's really what this is about: app ecosystems. Making a good OS is easy, but getting mindshare/appshare is difficult (as microsoft learned the hard way). AOSP makes no difference I think. I…

I assume a large company like Huawei can replicate the play store experience. Is there anything stopping them from creating a mirror of the most popular .apks?

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#124
post #52

The article links to an interesting view on how even AOSP is a no-go for Huawei: https://www.xda-developers.com/analysis-huawei-aosp-google-b... What I find interesting is that Apache Licensed software can be relicensed even in proprietary form (as long as you make it a derivative work, with your derivative bits with a proprietary license), thus the easy way out seems to be to have a non-US entity make a proprietary…

I believe that if Google doesn't license AOSP to Huawei (whether by their own free choice or not), it might be that they are in violation of the Linux kernel GPL2 agreement that they have made with Linus / Linux Foundation.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#125
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are true. Google cut off Huawei because the US government told them to.

It is not like they had an option. They are a US based company. They must do it.

I fully agree. Google had to comply, but it is not in its advantage because it shows that Google is too much powerful and that is problematic.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#126
post #52

The article links to an interesting view on how even AOSP is a no-go for Huawei: https://www.xda-developers.com/analysis-huawei-aosp-google-b... What I find interesting is that Apache Licensed software can be relicensed even in proprietary form (as long as you make it a derivative work, with your derivative bits with a proprietary license), thus the easy way out seems to be to have a non-US entity make a proprietary…

I believe that if Google doesn't license AOSP to Huawei (whether by their own free choice or not), it might be that they are in violation of the Linux kernel GPL2 agreement that they have made with Linus / Linux Foundation.

Elaborate?

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#127
post #77
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t Android open source? So why can’t Huawei simply fork it?

The OS is open source, Google Play Services isn't. When you are developing Android apps, you can leverage Google Play Services for all sorts of functionality, such as push notifications and maps, and I would say more apps do use these than don't. Huawei can still put Android on their phones, but not with Google Play Services. This means that many Android apps just won't work. They also can't supply the Google Play St…

Google Play can be rewritten from scratch to look like the real one and point to open source repositories, but the real hassle are device drivers: they're tight closed to the point there's not a single person in the world who managed to install a 100% open OS on a phone or tablet; even Purism themselves had to use some closed blobs here and there. Closed firmware/blobs/drivers are the #1 problem; that's the battle to send more troops to, not play stores or apps. The day we eradicate them from devices is the day we can consider those devices really open and trustworthy, the day no entity in the world, not even the original manufacturers, can suddenly decide to make a device obsolete forcing the user to buy a new one.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#128
post #52

The article links to an interesting view on how even AOSP is a no-go for Huawei: https://www.xda-developers.com/analysis-huawei-aosp-google-b... What I find interesting is that Apache Licensed software can be relicensed even in proprietary form (as long as you make it a derivative work, with your derivative bits with a proprietary license), thus the easy way out seems to be to have a non-US entity make a proprietary…

Once you are completely blocked from doing business, what do you lose by infringing copyright?

The article speculates legal judgements & fines for violations. So, lots.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#129

Does it reveal Google's iron grip on Android ? Really ? I'd say it rather reveals most users' unhealthy addiction to Google's services, without which, this whole thing wouldn't be the 'tragedy' and wake up call it's turning out to be for many. I have used Android for a decade now completely Google-free and no one could pay me enough money to be tracked and to run pure spyware 24/7 at this point... I enjoy immensely h…

Could you share your current phone model and OS?

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#130
post #79
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t Android open source? So why can’t Huawei simply fork it?

Google has spent the last decade cutting apart the open part of Android and making it more and more proprietary. Launcher, Phone app, Messages, Contacts, Calendar. All proprietary. Notification API, Location API, SMS APIs and step counter APIs, and even the new app format. All proprietary. It's a huge undertaking building an app for Android today without using Google's services, and sometimes even impossible. If you…

> It's a huge undertaking building an app for Android today without using Google's services, and sometimes even impossible.

F-Droid developers manage to do it. Sure, they might not publish their apps on the Google-Play Store (some do, actually) but so what? Any Android user can freely download these entirely open apps and install them on their own, by pre-checking a box in the phone settings. That's still more than you can say about iOS!

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