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The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

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Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#61

Post by necovek »

luckylion wrote: post #12
writepub wrote: post #4

Such iron, much grip. You can trivially install Google play store and services on 98% of the non-licensed phones in China. The fact that a $50B Chinese domestic Android market is thriving with zero control by Google proves the thesis to be untrue. Then there's Amazon's fire product line. The only reason it lags Google's play store is quality. If Amazon's hardware and software/store selection were 80% as good, they'd…

> You can trivially install Google play store and services on 98% of the non-licensed phones in China. You can. I can. My mother and 95% (99? 99.9?) of the android users cannot. > The fact that a $50B Chinese domestic Android market is thriving with zero control by Google proves the thesis to be untrue. In Western countries it's true. You also can't build an online business in Europe if you're blocked by Google becau…

> You can. I can. My mother and 95% (99? 99.9?) of the android users cannot.

My mom is quick to install shitload of stuff on her phone that would be much harder for me to do (I once tried shutting down Facebook group notifications on her phone and gave up after manually going through a 100 or so ;)). She will gladly follow a tutorial on the web, download apks from unsafe sources, allow all permissions the app asks for etc.

I, on the other hand, would look for a trusted source which would be much harder to find, would be weary of giving my credentials to any app, and would be even more weary of giving permissions that I do not find strictly necessary to an app that's coming on my phone.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#62

Post by turtlecloud »

DeonPenny wrote: post #55
turtlecloud wrote: post #43

So they trigger the PRC gov to build their own OS. A temporary setback or worse? Who do we bet on in 10 yrs? State sponsored technology or Google? My bet is on China.

Lol do that seems like a strange bet. State sponsor rarely win in those cases

Mossad would like a word with you :)

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#63

Post by TsomArp »

harryf wrote: post #34
Roritharr wrote: post #9

Google invested Billions into Android. Samsung tried to hedge for this by building Tizen(Bada) and realized how much needed to be invested to get an Android competitor going, so they kept the development going, but focused for their Smartwatches, as this would have to be a "if the worst happens" plan, not something that could be a profitable venture. LG has the Palm/HP borne WebOS for their TVs, i suspect with a simi…

It’s possible that Google cutting off Huawei will actually backfire, because it makes having a viable alternative to Android a MUST HAVE instead of just NICE TO HAVE. Perhaps it’s possible to resurrect Blackberry 10 ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_10 ) for example, which seemed to be an impressive piece of engineering that got trampled by Blackberrys failing business. I played with a demo once that could…

I believe that is not actually google that cut off Huawei, but but US government prohibits any US company to make business with them.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#64

Post by dageshi »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #11
Roritharr wrote: post #9

Google invested Billions into Android. Samsung tried to hedge for this by building Tizen(Bada) and realized how much needed to be invested to get an Android competitor going, so they kept the development going, but focused for their Smartwatches, as this would have to be a "if the worst happens" plan, not something that could be a profitable venture. LG has the Palm/HP borne WebOS for their TVs, i suspect with a simi…

This is different from Korean manufacturers this time. This is China caught in a national security issue. - China has a huge domestic market and it may be sufficient in itself for a profitable venture - About half of Android phones are manufactured by Chinese brands. - China has deep pockets and are willing to play the long game. - They have no choice. Trump's used the nuclear option, which may well work in the short…

This was always China's desire, to basically build home grown tech's that could replace the ones they were using from the west. Unless the Chinese government mandates use of a single os (no android) in the domestic market then it won't work, if they do then they still don't have a viable os for the rest of the world because the rest of the world wants google, facebook and other apps which are banned in china. Facebook e.t.c. aren't going to make apps for a primarily domestic only phone where they are legally banned.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#65

Post by sdan »

polyterative wrote: post #3

I understand that AOSP and open source is cool and stuff, but still the alternative is Apple's OS. I'm not even mad

You don't really get too much with AOSP. Google's just flexing it off to portray its "open" when in reality Google's using a reasonably different version of AOSP for Android.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#66

Post by tokai »

pizza wrote: post #24
baybal2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google bought this platform with every dollar invested over more than a decade, they didn't do this only so that Apple had a competitor, but so that THEY had control over mobile eyeballs. Google's biggest trick was developers. They leveraged the decaying state of Java, and it being the default CS language in a lot of places. They simple showed a more attractive opportunity to tenths of thousands of Java devs stuck…

Makes me think whoever comes up with a mainstreamed way to do cross-platform mobile apps in Python will easily capture a large share of recent college grads, too, then.

Kivy already does that?

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#67

Post by luckylion »

necovek wrote: post #61
luckylion wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can trivially install Google play store and services on 98% of the non-licensed phones in China. You can. I can. My mother and 95% (99? 99.9?) of the android users cannot. > The fact that a $50B Chinese domestic Android market is thriving with zero control by Google proves the thesis to be untrue. In Western countries it's true. You also can't build an online business in Europe if you're blocked by Google becau…

> You can. I can. My mother and 95% (99? 99.9?) of the android users cannot. My mom is quick to install shitload of stuff on her phone that would be much harder for me to do (I once tried shutting down Facebook group notifications on her phone and gave up after manually going through a 100 or so ;)). She will gladly follow a tutorial on the web, download apks from unsafe sources, allow all permissions the app asks fo…

Good point, trust is another issue.

Your mother sounds like she trusts herself to be able to do it, then looks for information (with you hoping she chooses trustworthy people) on how to do it. Most people I know pretty much shut down when they hit something they haven't encountered before, so they won't even search for the error message. Trust out of the way, a more open android is a good option for tech savvy people, but I fear the majority wouldn't be able to work with that.

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#68

Post by rickdeckard »

dogma1138 wrote: post #51
harryf wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible that Google cutting off Huawei will actually backfire, because it makes having a viable alternative to Android a MUST HAVE instead of just NICE TO HAVE. Perhaps it’s possible to resurrect Blackberry 10 ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_10 ) for example, which seemed to be an impressive piece of engineering that got trampled by Blackberrys failing business. I played with a demo once that could…

Really? Do you think Samsung and LG would be more likely to develop not to mention support an Android competitor? This ban is the best thing that happened to Korean mobile phone manufacturers for years. Huawei was breathing down Sammy’s neck things are looking much bright for them now.

Not really. The situation is much more opening the space for OTHER Chinese vendors to jump in and grab the market. Samsung is already selling in all channels where Huawei is, so they have their shelf-space allocated already. That slot will not remain vacant. LG can surely grab a bit more business in short-term for sales-channels they were not selling to, because even if they are not in a specific channel, they have products ready and tested for the market to fill the gap immediately. TCL/Alcatel has maybe some opportunities in low-price device-tier as well, because they have established relationships with many carriers and retailers.

On the other hand, Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus, Xiaomi are all not sanctioned by US, all of them offer comparable products with a very similar price and aggressively try to expand their international presence.

So I expect mainly a Oppo/Vivo/OnePlus vs. Xiaomi vs. TCL/Alcatel fight for every slot Huawei is at risk to lose...

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#69

Post by NotPaidToPost »

dageshi wrote: post #64
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is different from Korean manufacturers this time. This is China caught in a national security issue. - China has a huge domestic market and it may be sufficient in itself for a profitable venture - About half of Android phones are manufactured by Chinese brands. - China has deep pockets and are willing to play the long game. - They have no choice. Trump's used the nuclear option, which may well work in the short…

This was always China's desire, to basically build home grown tech's that could replace the ones they were using from the west. Unless the Chinese government mandates use of a single os (no android) in the domestic market then it won't work, if they do then they still don't have a viable os for the rest of the world because the rest of the world wants google, facebook and other apps which are banned in china. Faceboo…

Chinese brands have huge market share in many countries outside China (e.g. close to 50% in India).

Facebook and others will make apps for them...

Re: The Huawei Disaster Reveals Google’s Iron Grip on Android

#70

Post by dindresto »

pas wrote: post #56

“Consumers are attached to the Google products and services that sit on top of the operating system,” I doubt that. Google is pretty bad at keeping users. (Probably GMail is the strongest anchor point, but as we have seen with the G+ real name gotcha, it's better to be prepared to stop using that. Though of course most GMail users are not prepared for that.) Users will use whatever is the default. Probably the YouTub…

I think Windows Phone has shown that "Google/Alphabet/YT would make apps for that platform too" is far from true.
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