Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#21

Post by GreaterFool » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:43 AM UTC

laurieg wrote: post #10

I thought it might be useful to add a comment mentioning what the changes are in layman's terms. Prior to the recent change, everyone working in Japan was a "skilled" worker. There was no language requirement and essentially anyone with a degree was eligible. This didn't cover manual labour jobs etc. But at the same time, many young people were out working in convenience stores, fast food restaurants etc. Turns out t…

The absolute fastest way to PR is through Highly Skilled Foreign Professional Type 1 visa. PR after a year. That's incredibly fast. Type 2 visa after 3 years IIRC. The difference between 1 and 2 is the number of points one scores.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#22

Post by jdietrich » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:44 AM UTC

Pmop wrote: post #9

benjohnson wrote: post #2

Im conflicted about this - I enjoy the multicultural aspects of my own town (Seattle) but I also sympathise with this idea of having a home culture.

I'm not only conflicted. I'm annoyed. Immigration is being sold as a solution to aging and shrinking population. While opening to immigrants certainly helps solving the shrinking workfoce problem, it is nothing more than a duct tape over what is happening: people no longer want to have kids. After it's been long enough that immigrants are not even called this anymore, if we discover that young workforce is still shri…

The ageing and shrinking population is a temporary, one-off problem. There's no fundamental reason why a replacement or below-replacement birth rate is a problem - in many ways it's advantageous - but it's a really big problem over the next few decades because we didn't plan for it. We have a big cohort of baby boomers with long life expectancies, grossly inadequate pension savings and considerable political power. We built our economy on the back of a Ponzi scheme, with the assumption that we'd keep giving birth to more suckers to fund the social security system.

Immigration doesn't fix that problem completely, but it allows us to deflate the Ponzi scheme gently rather than waiting for it to collapse. We buy ourselves three or four decades to raise the retirement age, raise taxes and rebalance the economy to suit a stable population. It's not perfect, not everyone will be happy with it, but it's the only good option.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#23

Post by duality » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:45 AM UTC

themagician wrote: post #12

jlawson wrote: post #6

So sad. Another ancient unique culture to be blended and homogenized into the global mass of undifferentiated Starbucks society. At least the megacorporations will get the cheap labor and undifferentiated consumers they want.

What is the alternative? All of the “developed” nations need immigration to prevent the social systems from completely falling apart. Our entire financial system is based on increasing population growth and the young paying to support the old. There aren’t enough young people. Without immigration, pensions, healthcare, social safety nets, property values… it all implodes. We go back to 1930 where old people just die…

It is weird to hear: 1) stop having so many kids, it's bad for the Earth, and 2) we're not having enough kids, let's substitute with immigrants.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#24

Post by duxup » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:46 AM UTC

It will be interesting to see how Japan deals with it culturally. From folks I know who lived there they said that while everyone was nice, it was always clear that they were very much outsiders.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#25

Post by duxup » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:46 AM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #6

So sad. Another ancient unique culture to be blended and homogenized into the global mass of undifferentiated Starbucks society. At least the megacorporations will get the cheap labor and undifferentiated consumers they want.

Exciting, a new culture gets to develop.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#26

Post by Apocryphon » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:47 AM UTC

blfr wrote: post #19

Apocryphon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why assume that Japanese culture is neither venerable nor attractive enough to withstand the phenomenon you’re describing?

Because culture is not an abstract set of ideas separate from its people. You can only adopt a culture you weren't brought up in to a certain degree, and usually very shallowly.

There have been non-ethnically Yamato people in Japan for at least centuries. However Japanese society or law might have treated them, are you saying the Zainichi are culturally less Japanese than ethnic Japanese?

Seems like a lack of faith in societies to properly integrate new arrivals.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#27

Post by duality » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:48 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #11

jlawson wrote: post #6

So sad. Another ancient unique culture to be blended and homogenized into the global mass of undifferentiated Starbucks society. At least the megacorporations will get the cheap labor and undifferentiated consumers they want.

Why assume that Japanese culture is neither venerable nor attractive enough to withstand the phenomenon you’re describing?

Mass migration seems to be for economic benefits. A handful of people may immigrate out of appreciation of their new host culture, but millions or tens of millions doing so? Seems unlikely to me. They'll go to earn more money.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#28

Post by tmm84 » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:48 AM UTC

GreaterFool wrote: post #18

> but it’s no longer quite right to call it homogeneous Are you sure? Japan is maybe 99% homogeneous? I live in central Tokyo and I can go on for days and days without seeing a foreigner! > it will inevitably introduce social strains Sadly, yes. I've observed this on few occasions.

I work in Akihabara. I see foreigners everyday. Even in Minato-ku I see plenty of non-Japanese people running around.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#29

Post by duality » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:50 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #26

blfr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because culture is not an abstract set of ideas separate from its people. You can only adopt a culture you weren't brought up in to a certain degree, and usually very shallowly.

There have been non-ethnically Yamato people in Japan for at least centuries. However Japanese society or law might have treated them, are you saying the Zainichi are culturally less Japanese than ethnic Japanese? Seems like a lack of faith in societies to properly integrate new arrivals.

This will likely prove to be a false equivalence.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#30

Post by blfr » Thu, May 23, 2019, 3:51 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #26

blfr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because culture is not an abstract set of ideas separate from its people. You can only adopt a culture you weren't brought up in to a certain degree, and usually very shallowly.

There have been non-ethnically Yamato people in Japan for at least centuries. However Japanese society or law might have treated them, are you saying the Zainichi are culturally less Japanese than ethnic Japanese? Seems like a lack of faith in societies to properly integrate new arrivals.

Seems like a lack of faith in societies to properly integrate new arrivals.

Yes, exactly. I have little faith in that, because it rarely happens.