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ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

bbc.com

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Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#211

Post by shuckles »

jdietrich wrote: post #190
shuckles wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the sorry technological state of mobile payments, such as their reliance on QR to authenticate, it’s more likely that quick adoption resulted from having no legacy POS solution and not superior innovation. Unclear how QR has meaningfully less friction than NFC solutions.

QR is fast, reliable and incredibly cheap to implement. It scans at a distance, with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks. If I'm a roadside snack vendor and want to accept mobile payments, I don't need to buy some sort of NFC widget, I just need to print out a QR code and stick it on my cart. I can send 100rmb to a friend in a couple of seconds, without worrying whether their phone is NFC…

"with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks"

I have worked with anti-fraud teams at Alibaba and other unnamed large Chinese firms. This is extremely far from the truth, and shoulder surfing QR scanning scams have been in the national news in China many times. NFC tags are cheap and already being proposed for scooters, etc.

QR proliferation is again enabled mostly by the fact that there is no incumbency advantage, not because they're better innovations. Even you admit they aren't, and you don't seem to fully understand how bad QR is as a payment media. Imagine Square's uptake in American SMBs and then mentally map that almost every Chinese retailer is or recently was an SMB. That's simply what's happening.

I don't harbor the notion that the US is particularly advanced, especially in standardized infrastructure, but pointing to QR as an example of Chinese innovation is not convincing.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#212

Post by criddell »

throw667843 wrote: post #171
criddell wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were never just another phone company. Their ties to the Chinese government were never a secret. If the US government partnered with a US company founded by former Defense Department people to build a product called Freedom Fone using mostly open source software, would you trust it?

Strange then that Huawei wanted to sell itself to Motorola.

I believe that's as likely as Foxconn actually fulfilling their end of the deal in Wisconsin.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#213

Post by 86carr »

jdietrich wrote: post #190
shuckles wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the sorry technological state of mobile payments, such as their reliance on QR to authenticate, it’s more likely that quick adoption resulted from having no legacy POS solution and not superior innovation. Unclear how QR has meaningfully less friction than NFC solutions.

QR is fast, reliable and incredibly cheap to implement. It scans at a distance, with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks. If I'm a roadside snack vendor and want to accept mobile payments, I don't need to buy some sort of NFC widget, I just need to print out a QR code and stick it on my cart. I can send 100rmb to a friend in a couple of seconds, without worrying whether their phone is NFC…

you failed to understand because you didn't pay attention to the context

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#214

Post by teddyh »

rchaud wrote: post #131
thkim wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. Chinese system only works when they are playing catch up. There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected. The system doesn't work when they need to push above everyone else.

> There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected. And yet mobile payments are integrated into Chinese e-commerce with the frictionlessness that Apple Pay and the others can only dream of. Who defines what "pioneer" is? Is SV not "pioneering" because the vast majority of its companies are trying to be Salesforce and not Uber?

> And yet mobile payments are integrated into Chinese e-commerce with the frictionlessness that Apple Pay and the others can only dream of.

That’s not a technology problem, that’s a political problem.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#215

Post by teddyh »

thkim wrote: post #75
yogthos wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My view is that IP is fundamentally a terrible idea and should be abolished. All it does is help incumbent companies and prevents competition.

This is a naive thinking. Advances in software industry are purely intellectual so it doesn't involve heavy cost, which is why open source idea can work and be argued that it promotes innovation. Say you are a pharmaceutical company developing a new drug, investing billions of dollars. If there is no IP, why do it? You need to wake up to reality.

This is far too big an issue to get into in this very limited forum, but suffice it to say the question is not as cut and dry as you appear to think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_copyright

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#216

Post by jjcc »

simion314 wrote: post #27
zaphar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one critical difference between America and China here. American companies have for the most part not been engaging in wholesale state sponsored theft of Chinese IP. Whatever you may think of the wisdom of a trade war, no one can really argue that China hasn't given the US all the ammunition it needed to give political cover to engaged in one.

I am wondering if the huge IP theft is mostly propaganda similar to the one US uses before it starts a war or changes some government in other country.

It's quite mixed and complicated. US government/media exaggerated and distort the situation or the nature of the problem intentionally or unintentionally that mislead Western public. A lot of Chinese admit that there are problems due to many factors. Things are already improved significantly compared to 20 years ago. But the progress will follow it's own pace, not external pressure.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#217

Post by writepub »

yogthos wrote: post #4

This could be a really great thing in the long run. I'm really hoping this will promote open hardware and software in the future. Huawei is most likely to start relying on open source tech, since they're under so much scrutiny that's the best way to show they're being above board. Using open software and hardware would also show that same thing couldn't happen with their stack in the future. If they're smart, they'll…

This optimistic hand waving is all OK - but starting in 90 days, when the US embargo kicks in, WHAT architecture will Huawei chips (Kirin?) use, when will they be designed and production ready and who will want Huawei phones with brand spaning new architecture instead of relying on decades mature ARM chips?

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#218

Post by jacquesm »

zaphar wrote: post #6
yogthos wrote: post #4

This could be a really great thing in the long run. I'm really hoping this will promote open hardware and software in the future. Huawei is most likely to start relying on open source tech, since they're under so much scrutiny that's the best way to show they're being above board. Using open software and hardware would also show that same thing couldn't happen with their stack in the future. If they're smart, they'll…

There is one critical difference between America and China here. American companies have for the most part not been engaging in wholesale state sponsored theft of Chinese IP. Whatever you may think of the wisdom of a trade war, no one can really argue that China hasn't given the US all the ammunition it needed to give political cover to engaged in one.

> American companies have for the most part not been engaging in wholesale state sponsored theft of Chinese IP.

That's because the Chinese don't have IP worth stealing. But there have been quite a few documented cases of the US stealing IP from European countries that they thought was worth stealing...

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#219

Post by jacquesm »

walshemj wrote: post #181
pjc50 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Information Feudalism (Drahos & Braithwaite) has lots more on this subject. After both world wars there was a lot of .. forced technology transfer from Germany.

And the allies post WW2 effectively created VW and helped Germany rebuild

VW dates from 1937.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#220

Post by baybal2 »

shuckles wrote: post #211
jdietrich wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QR is fast, reliable and incredibly cheap to implement. It scans at a distance, with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks. If I'm a roadside snack vendor and want to accept mobile payments, I don't need to buy some sort of NFC widget, I just need to print out a QR code and stick it on my cart. I can send 100rmb to a friend in a couple of seconds, without worrying whether their phone is NFC…

"with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks" I have worked with anti-fraud teams at Alibaba and other unnamed large Chinese firms. This is extremely far from the truth, and shoulder surfing QR scanning scams have been in the national news in China many times. NFC tags are cheap and already being proposed for scooters, etc. QR proliferation is again enabled mostly by the fact that there is n…

I knew the man who was on the team that came with idea of using QR for payment. Their pretty much one and only point was to circumvent Apple's blockade of existing payment mechanisms.

And yes, Japanese mail order magazines came with idea of "offline Internet shopping" back in nineties, in era of flatbed scanners

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