ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei • Hacker News Board

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#171

Post by throw667843 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #152

yogthos wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possible, but they're in a completely different situation now where their credibility is under threat. Before they were just another phone company, now they have to prove that their technology is above board.

They were never just another phone company. Their ties to the Chinese government were never a secret. If the US government partnered with a US company founded by former Defense Department people to build a product called Freedom Fone using mostly open source software, would you trust it?

Strange then that Huawei wanted to sell itself to Motorola.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#172

Post by blu42 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

A2017U1 wrote: post #160

thommark wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think EU will trust Huawei at all. Recently my country Netherlands has found backdoors in Huawei equipments https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-huawei-tech/d... . and the biggest telecom in my country just banned huawei in its 5G network. I am sure this will prompt more countries to reject Huawei, especially if one of the bigger countries like Italy, France, or Spain rejects them.

> Recently my country Netherlands has found backdoors That's not what that article says at all. Meanwhile: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/evidence-of-backdoors-i...

Come to think of it, I believe I might have found a couple of "back doors" in Win 10. Shall I call my EU parliament representative now about trade sanctions against MS, or shall I wait till Monday? Decisions, decisions..

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#173

Post by throw667843 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #72

DCKing wrote: post #46

I see a lot of people dreaming about Huawei needing to pivot to open source technology, but the overwhelmingly likely outcome here is that the trade dispute gets (partially) resolved to the extent that Huawei can operate as usual again. Dreaming of Huawei backed RISC V SoCs is a pipe dream anyway, at least for mobile processors. For a mobile SoC you need a GPU as well. There are no viable open source GPU architecture…

The rhetoric is pretty strong around Huwaei. What sort of PR exchange do you see that resolves this, with them continuing to use ARM with a blessing from Google, the oval office, etc?

Not PR, but actually money and lobbying. Maybe promise a factory in some key cities and states.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#174

Post by Iv » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

To all the people thinking geopolitics, please just remember that ARM is owned by Softbank now. For this kind of decisions, this is a Japanese company.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#175

Post by shuckles » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #157

shuckles wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have noticed that the “reader mode” feature in UC Browser, the most popular browser in China, directly lifted the JavaScript from a similar feature in an American company’s product. Internal bug references, and all.

Interesting, the reader mode has many open source implementations. But I am sure you can find similar cases in ot6her countries, I was wondering some important case/example like China stealing Windows code and making their own not some small company there pirated some software, that happens in other places too.

UC Browser is developed by Alibaba, one of China’s biggest companies. It’s easy to spot instances of stolen JavaScript because it’s injected into the page. Who knows what else they’ve stolen. This is not an open source implementation we’re talking about.

There are rumors that much of Huawei’s network stack was stolen from Cisco and Juniper through government-mandated partnerships.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#176

Post by walshemj » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

This is interesting I was listening to onw of the War on the rocks podcasts and their commentary was that the commerce department has to produce in Everyone seems to be jumping the gun here "working towards the president maybe"

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#177

Post by Zak » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

DCKing wrote: post #161

Zak wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is trying to assert extraterritorial jurisdiction as well with the GDPR and its like. If all countries start doing this sort of thing with any degree of success, international and online business as we know it won't be possible.

No it doesn't. It only applies if you operate within the EU, and if you do business with (the data of) EU citizens. I'm not sure what else you can reasonably expect there.

If you run a website that allows arbitrary visitors to enter data, some of them will be from the EU. Some of them will also be from... let's say Iran.

Should everyone who runs a website open to the public have to know the laws of Iran and obey those intended to apply to their website? Should websites have to attempt to block access to visitors from countries whose laws they either don't know or don't want to comply with? Both of those approaches break the internet as we know it.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#178

Post by Zak » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

yogthos wrote: post #168

Zak wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central economic planning doesn't have an especially good track record. While one could certainly argue that market economies put a lot of resources into things that aren't important or good for the world, they've done better over the past 100 years at not having people starving to death.

That's big news to major American companies like Amazon and Walmart that have completely embraced central planning.

We may not be talking about the same thing. I'm referring to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#179

Post by baybal2 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #82

sanxiyn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HiSilicon already developed their own ARM64 core (not Cortex) in Kunpeng 920, although it is a server chip and not a mobile chip. I think HiSilicon is entirely capable of developing (not copying) their own core.

The thing about ARM is that they more or less act like they own the ISA itself, and have a huge patent portfolio. There's an expectation that a company have an "architecture license" to make their own ARM-compatible core from scratch (unless it's an obsolete version of the ISA, e.g. Amber [1]). So while you're right that Cortex per se isn't relevant, there's still a question of whether HiSilicon will legally be able…

ARM licensed cores under 3 legal entities. UK's parent company, ARM China in mainland, and ARM China in Hongkong.

Under all 3, jurisdiction the ARM is screwed if Huawei will begin claiming their contractual obligations from them. Maybe UK courts will give them some special treatment.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#180

Post by Matthias247 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

dharma1 wrote: post #16

How long would it take Huawei (or a bunch of Chinese companies) to develop MIPS or RISC-V based phones? Too long to run out of cash (given that their sales for the foreseeable future just cratered) - or doable?

The CPU is however also only one part of the puzzle, and they need all the peripherals (and especially: Modems!) too.