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Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

bloomberg.com

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Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#41

Post by TheAlchemist »

oldjokes wrote: post #19
TheAlchemist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bad interpretation of this survey. The initial question should be - have you ever checked what aircraft you will be flying ? 99% of passengers have no idea.

I don't think this 99% figure is true based on my personal experiences, but even if it was accurate a few months ago it's not anymore. People sure as hell are paying attention to which plane they fly on now, because they have to. It wasn't really a concern in the past because Boeing and the FAA didn't appear to be failing. They have impressive mountains of data that they hid behind while just operating with staggerin…

99% is not a precise figure for sure. I've found those 2 articles / surveys on that: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-boeing-...

"Southwest said the comments were consistent with feedback it receives and noted that “well less than 1% of customers check their aircraft type traditionally, but we do expect more customers to become aware given the current climate.” " - 99% seems close :) I frankly don't expect that to change that much - maybe it will become 95%, still overhelming majority.

Survey: https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/mkt/11/10298/10205/201...

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#42

Post by linuxftw »

Booked a flight for later this summer (US). United apparently thinks the Max is going back in service sooner than later, at least the MAX-9. I decided to take a less desirable iternary and more expensive flights to avoid that aircraft. Clearly the FAA is signaling to someone that this is all going to blow over. Does anyone actually expected the Boeing's to fail the investigation? I don't. Business as usual: "We identified what happend, won't happen again, promises"

I won't be flying on one anytime soon if I can help it.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#44

Post by linuxftw »

radcon wrote: post #40

Is anyone else extremely reluctant to fly on a Boeing plane after this? A lot of people say "It's no big deal, they just need to update the MCAS software" , but I see this entire situation as a sign of much deeper issues at Boeing, issues that can't be fixed with a simple software update and could affect every plane they make.

Yes, I am. It's not a 'just need to update MCAS' situation IMO, that's a Boeing talking point. We don't know how badly the MCAS is needed and how dangerous the plane is if it fails, and their current solution is to make it more failure prone (read from two sources and disable upon >x disagree).

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#45

Post by xaqfox »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #16
mmrezaie wrote: post #10

I flied to Cyprus from Stockholm with Norwegian last week. On the plane it was written 737-800 or 737 Max. I wonder how you can tell them apart and if Norwegian uses the Max line!?

EDIT: Lol, nevermind. Go read the child comments. I failed. There are two features you can look for: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/48929/is-this-a... tl;dr on the MAX the wing tips split into two (above and below the main wing), on all previous 737s, the wingtips only curve up. Also the engine cowling has some cool looky jaggies on the trailing edge.

That winglet design is not specific to the MAX aircraft. That CFM engine is also used on Airbus NEO.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#46

Post by apacheCamel »

radcon wrote: post #40

Is anyone else extremely reluctant to fly on a Boeing plane after this? A lot of people say "It's no big deal, they just need to update the MCAS software" , but I see this entire situation as a sign of much deeper issues at Boeing, issues that can't be fixed with a simple software update and could affect every plane they make.

I feel the same way. This says a lot about the 737-Max but it also says a ton about the company. This whole thing has shed a light on Boeing that I personally have a hard time overlooking. I know my opinion matters little in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't seem like many people are in the same boat as me.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#47

Post by swarnie_ »

getaclue wrote: post #23
yaseer wrote: post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

we are about to fly soon and literally the first thing I’ve thought (and my SO) was I hope it’s not this plane

Did exactly the same thing when i went away a few months back, my trip just after the second accident but not before the grounding i believe. Not sure what the options are if you get stuck on a plane you don't exactly want to be on.

My trip just after the second accident but not before teh grounding.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#48

Post by swarnie_ »

the_dege wrote: post #4
yaseer wrote: post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

Normal passengers won't even notice that they are flying in a 747 max.

You can look up the plane your due to fly on online using the flight number.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#49

Post by simion314 »

philjohn wrote: post #35
Aromasin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are certainly looking bullish for Airbus in the aftermath of this.

There was an interesting Mentour Pilot about this, essentially the lead time for a new airplane order is in the order of years, and there are other costs as well. If you've built your business around one specific type of jet it's costly to move to the competitors, which is why the "no type rating change" was so important for the max. Perhaps for future large orders this may be a boon for Airbus, but that would be in…

You still have the FAA and related regulations issues, this kind of unsafe behavior should have been caught early. Is FAA regulating other companies and products? those also would need investigated

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#50

Post by iainmerrick »

oldjokes wrote: post #19
TheAlchemist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bad interpretation of this survey. The initial question should be - have you ever checked what aircraft you will be flying ? 99% of passengers have no idea.

I don't think this 99% figure is true based on my personal experiences, but even if it was accurate a few months ago it's not anymore. People sure as hell are paying attention to which plane they fly on now, because they have to. It wasn't really a concern in the past because Boeing and the FAA didn't appear to be failing. They have impressive mountains of data that they hid behind while just operating with staggerin…

I think that 99% is probably more like 95%. That still doesn’t sound very significant -- only 5% of passengers bother to check! -- but given the slim operating margins of airlines, 5% lost revenue would be a huge blow.
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