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Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

bloomberg.com

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Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#31

Post by lagadu »

riffraff wrote: post #24
SomeHacker44 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will not fly the 737 MAX unless and until it has its own type certificate... and even then not for at least 3-4 years of commercial service under that condition. It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets.

> It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets. is it? I've never noticed it. I guess it's possible to infer it by the seat configuration when you get to choose it, but I never saw "you'll be flying XYZ" when I booked tickets in the past.

Just find out the flight number (which you can see once you select the flight) and search for it by date and time.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#32

Post by Insanity »

riffraff wrote: post #24
SomeHacker44 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will not fly the 737 MAX unless and until it has its own type certificate... and even then not for at least 3-4 years of commercial service under that condition. It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets.

> It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets. is it? I've never noticed it. I guess it's possible to infer it by the seat configuration when you get to choose it, but I never saw "you'll be flying XYZ" when I booked tickets in the past.

Might depend on which airline you are using. I've always been able to find out which aircraft it was. But, it's not always _super visible_.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#33

Post by Angostura »

yaseer wrote: post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

I'm not sure I've ever been told what type of plane I'm flying in when I book - are you typically told?

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#35

Post by philjohn »

Aromasin wrote: post #5
hu3 wrote: post #2

A slap in the face to the comments that were dismissing concerns as overreactions and stating that 737-MAX would return to operation shortly. Not in EU at least.

Things are certainly looking bullish for Airbus in the aftermath of this.

There was an interesting Mentour Pilot about this, essentially the lead time for a new airplane order is in the order of years, and there are other costs as well. If you've built your business around one specific type of jet it's costly to move to the competitors, which is why the "no type rating change" was so important for the max.

Perhaps for future large orders this may be a boon for Airbus, but that would be in the longer medium term, and a lot can happen between then and now.

As it is, having two large companies trading blows is better than one dominating the market, so I hope Boeing are humbled, have a root and branch overhaul of how they conduct business, and shareholders take a hit, but that they survive.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#36

Post by cr1895 »

Angostura wrote: post #33
yaseer wrote: post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

I'm not sure I've ever been told what type of plane I'm flying in when I book - are you typically told?

I can always see the type of aircraft when booking a flight with KLM. I don't know if it's typical though.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#37

Post by CaptainZapp »

riffraff wrote: post #24
SomeHacker44 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will not fly the 737 MAX unless and until it has its own type certificate... and even then not for at least 3-4 years of commercial service under that condition. It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets.

> It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets. is it? I've never noticed it. I guess it's possible to infer it by the seat configuration when you get to choose it, but I never saw "you'll be flying XYZ" when I booked tickets in the past.

seatguru.com is your friend.

Note, though, that planes can be swaped on short notice, or no notice at all.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#38

Post by hlandau »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #14
yaseer wrote: post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

I will not fly the 737 MAX unless and until it has its own type certificate... and even then not for at least 3-4 years of commercial service under that condition. It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets.

Hold on a minute. Though the 737 MAX issues were caused by the desire to keep the same type rating, making the 737 MAX have a new type rating at this point won't solve the issue.

The 737 MAX needed to retain the unusual fuselage design of the 737 to retain the type rating, leading to the unusual positioning of the new, larger engines, leading to MCAS.

Even if they gave the 737 MAX a new type rating at this point, the fuselage would still be the same shape as a 737 with the engine positioning driving the need for MCAS.

The only way to get rid of the need for MCAS at this point, AFAICT, would be to create a new fuselage which doesn't inherit the historical baggage of the 737 (which was designed to support airstairs). That would be a whole new plane, not just a new rating. The 737 MAXes built so far would be scrap.

It's been remarked before, but if Boeing hadn't been so determined to keep the same type rating, reviving the 757 might have made more sense.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#39

Post by hackandtrip »

mmrezaie wrote: post #10

I flied to Cyprus from Stockholm with Norwegian last week. On the plane it was written 737-800 or 737 Max. I wonder how you can tell them apart and if Norwegian uses the Max line!?

I think it's unlikely that it was a 737-MAX, Norwegian should have just 18 737-MAX and more than 110 737-800. Source: https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressreleases/update-on-the-t...

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#40

Post by radcon »

Is anyone else extremely reluctant to fly on a Boeing plane after this?

A lot of people say "It's no big deal, they just need to update the MCAS software", but I see this entire situation as a sign of much deeper issues at Boeing, issues that can't be fixed with a simple software update and could affect every plane they make.

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