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Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

nytimes.com

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Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#101

Post by pixl97 »

schintan wrote: post #93

unrelated to this particular article, but it seems nytimes coverage is tending more and more towards tech Luddite category these days. It is one thing to inform the readers but they seem to be bent on spreading fear about all things tech.

This is exactly what you should expect when tech companies get to run roughshod over any regulations or consumer protections.

This isn't fear mongering against technology. This is bringing up absolute points about corporations completely out of control. I mean, for all that is good, the phone companies are still fighting the government on why it is good they can sell our cellphone/location data to whoever they want.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#102

Post by agentofuser »

michaelt wrote: post #82
wiggler00m wrote: post #22

"What carmakers are doing with the collected data isn’t clear." Carmakers will reduce the mortality rate from motor vehicle accidents to almost zero (with full autonomy), using the collected data. There were 37,133 MV deaths in the USA in 2017 (more than 0.01% of the population) according to Wiki.

Car makers will get data they can use to simulate and test their self-driving cars. But car makers will also get full GPS traces - showing where you live, where you work, where you shop and every time you speed. And they'll probably get what phone was seen on bluetooth, how many seats were occupied, and what radio station was listened to. All identifiable by vehicle, and very close to identifiable by driver. Will the…

Most users are concerned, they just feel powerless to do anything about it.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#103

Post by rootusrootus »

bwb wrote: post #62
sokoloff wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attending AA meetings, being treated for an STD or at a cancer center, and consistently leaving a bar at closing time are all perfectly legal, yet something people may wish to be able to exercise significant privacy over.

Agreed, but that also doesn't mean the data can't be used when stripped of identifiers to improve the product and society. I don't want cell phone companies selling my specific location, but I also don't want them to not get data from my phone to improve their services where there are drop outs or other issues.

We have seen repeatedly that anonymizing data effectively is actually quite a lot more difficult than it seems.

I'd much rather that we whitelist the data we think is worth collecting and analyzing for product improvement, instead of trying to blacklist the things we prefer are kept private.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#104

Post by danso »

JamesBarney wrote: post #95
danso wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data collected by phones are used to train systems like web/voice search, voice translation, and routing algorithms, all which ostensibly (or, at least, purportedly) benefit billions of end users on a daily basis. I don’t see how you can say Tesla’s case is so obviously a more justified example. In any case, this article is about all cars — Tesla vehicles are still a sliver of the user base.

I think it's more valuable for two reasons. One the end result is more valuables, I'd trade all of those services for self-driving cars. And second I think other types of data are easier to get than driving data.

We are not given any evidence or elaboration on how Tesla (or any other company) is using that data toward self-driving, nevermind that the data will be exclusively used for just that and not a myriad of other self-serving purposes.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#105

Post by rootusrootus »

kurthr wrote: post #4
bwb wrote: post #2

Why? Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on. Privacy is a spectrum, I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". In some cases maybe it should be, in other cases, it should not be. Now maybe you should have a right to see it, download it, and remove identifying markers but I am so tired of this extreme…

On the one hand I agree about extreme privacy movement and I can see how travel in the public roads provides some reason to provide driving data to the public... or even the builder. On the other hand, if it's your car why don't you control it and the data it collects? Maybe if it was loaned, leased, or licensed I could see the seller retaining a right to data, but ownership has its privileges. In the extreme case, l…

Also, it is difficult to imagine what data would be useful to the public that isn't already collected in public. I don't have to access the data in your car to see if you are driving erratically, speeding, etc, this can all be observed easily enough from outside.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#108

Post by mtgx »

bhauer wrote: post #10

What? > We know our smartphones, Nests and Alexas collect data, and we’ve come to accept an implicit contract: We trade personal information for convenience. With cars, we have no such expectation ... What carmakers are doing with the collected data isn’t clear. At least Tesla has demonstrated that their data collection is for training their full self-driving capability. That represents tremendous end-user value, in…

> At least Tesla has demonstrated that their data collection is for training their full self-driving capability

No, it's also so it can defend itself with the line that "hands weren't on the wheel" whenever an Autopilot-enabled car crashes again.

Forget the fact that a malicious actor could probably make it look like that anyway, or even the fact that Tesla's own "hands on wheel" sensor isn't very accurate at all.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#109

Post by taborj »

yumraj wrote: post #46
dominotw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.tesla.com/about/legal there is section for "From or about your Tesla vehicle" Its a bit weird to agree to this when buying your vehicle and complain about it later. Its not like they are doing it behind your back like FB, they are telling you upfront what they are collecting. how can you possibly have a problem with that.

1) Huh, what makes you believe I own Tesla - maybe that is not what you're implying but kinda confused by your wording. 2) Still, thanks for pointing that out. Now, I'm even less inclined to buy a Tesla. 3) Wonder what happens in private sale of used Tesla, since the second owner never agreed to such terms, or did they? (Depends on when these terms are presented to them). Could lead to a class action, just saying...…

3) Wonder what happens in private sale of used Tesla, since the second owner never agreed to such terms, or did they? (Depends on when these terms are presented to them). Could lead to a class action, just saying...

This is my thought exactly, and not just for Tesla.

The original purchaser agreed to the privacy policy, but if the original purchaser goes on to sell that vehicle in a private transaction, then the second purchaser did not agree to said privacy policy.

Also, since private sales are just that - private - how does the manufacturer know who the data is now about?

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#110

Post by ascagnel_ »

umvi wrote: post #41

> Today’s car has the computing power of 20 personal computers Then why does the touchscreen still lag as if powered by a Pentium 4?

Because hardware and automotive engineers make for poor software designers and developers (and vice versa).
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