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Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

zdnet.com

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Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#11

Post by tonyedgecombe »

llamaz wrote: post #10
deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

"there are checks and balances and freedoms" you are so full of child like innocence, I envy you

There is no need to be so condescending.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#13

Post by okintheory »

deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

This is not a hypothetical question at all. Denmark is certainly asking this question, with the understanding that currently the US can tap anything they want in our communications infrastructure, and buying 5G from Huawei would instead give that power to the Chinese.

I think it is fortunate that Danish political consensus is converging toward avoiding Huawei infrastructure. American politicians might be as bad as Chinese leaders, but the former are sometimes held accountable, however meekly.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#14

Post by fit2rule »

deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

For me, as an ex-Australian who has lived in America and Europe, I don't trust either China or America with regards to their spying. Both countries have a long line of human rights violations in their history, and neither has shown a particular improvement in the last few decades.

The USA has committed untold strife in the world. It has toppled democratically elected governments and installed dictators, it has declared war on innocent nations and racked up hundreds of thousands of innocent victims in its rush to war glory. It has spent more on war in the last decade than any other nation, by far, while its people suffer under one of the most tyrannical, terrible health systems the modern world has constructed.

China has concentration camps. America has a thousand top-secret military prisons scattered around the globe.

The idea that one can be trusted over the other is utterly naive, and in light of the real evidence on the ground, a terribly ignorant point of view. I mean, we may be able to say, in all fairness, that there is a great chance that Huawei MAY spy for the Chinese government - but we can say for certainty that every single ISP in the USA HAS spied for the US Government, and we have no way to be sure it isn't still happening given the immense resources poured into making us look the other way as a civil society.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#15

Post by dogma1138 »

okintheory wrote: post #13
deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

This is not a hypothetical question at all. Denmark is certainly asking this question, with the understanding that currently the US can tap anything they want in our communications infrastructure, and buying 5G from Huawei would instead give that power to the Chinese. I think it is fortunate that Danish political consensus is converging toward avoiding Huawei infrastructure. American politicians might be as bad as Ch…

What American company provides 5G carrier capabilities currently? I can’t think of any the only two that come in mind that aren’t Chinese are Alcatel-Nokia-Siemens-Lucent or w/e they are called now and Ericsson.

For the most part the US can compromise networks without needing to control the companies that provide the equipment they’ll just compromise the operator and the supply chain.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#16

Post by INTPenis »

deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

>in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China.

If the government really wants you they'll take you. And no amount of thoughts, prayers or picketing will free you.

We've seen examples of that in our generation, the last 20 years only when we've had a massive information network available. Imagine all the nameless poor sods who have disappeared before the internet.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#17

Post by hef19898 »

deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

Now Europe is being bitten by the fact that there are no major European companies left. Siemens network branch was bought by Nokia and then there's Ericsson.

I'm just not sure why the EU is not making using domestic hardware a prerequisite. Would keep technological know how in the EU and reduce dependency. Not to speak about security.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#18

Post by ymolodtsov »

llamaz wrote: post #10
deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

"there are checks and balances and freedoms" you are so full of child like innocence, I envy you

Come on, the fact the Trump wasn’t able to achieve much of what he wanted (and even start those initiatives properly) confirms that. A country with less powerful social institutes would be in a worse shape.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#19

Post by dogma1138 »

hef19898 wrote: post #17
deugtniet wrote: post #8

One point that I'm missing, is that the government of China can legally force any of their companies to start spying. And there would be no way that we would know. Then often the argument becomes: But the US are already spying on us, so it's not too bad. Which is fair, but in the US, there are checks and balances and freedoms so that somebody has recourse. All these things are absent in China. So the question is one…

Now Europe is being bitten by the fact that there are no major European companies left. Siemens network branch was bought by Nokia and then there's Ericsson. I'm just not sure why the EU is not making using domestic hardware a prerequisite. Would keep technological know how in the EU and reduce dependency. Not to speak about security.

There are no US companies either afaik Qualcomm does not make carrier equipment they are happy making basebands and milking patents.

Re: Paranoia will destroy us: Why Huawei and other Chinese tech is not spying

#20

Post by ymolodtsov »

RobertoG wrote: post #9

It surprise me that people take those allegations seriously. I mean, some spying is to be expected but not to justify the banning of all the company. I thought it was obvious that this have nothing to do with spying. Some elements in the USA government and legislative have decided that China could be a threat to American only superpower status. By the way, what happened with the Bloomberg allegations? (1) (1) - https…

I’m not sure how 5G infrastructure or smartphones threaten the status of a superpower in any sense. Also, at this point Bloomberg is already an outlet that can’t be trusted as they haven’t provided any follow-up to the Super Micro story.
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