Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#101

Post by rootoor » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #24

tedivm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are numerous ways in which Tim Cook's generation has failed the next generation (at least in the US). * Wages are flat, * Housing costs are up (in large part due to NIMBYism), * College is more expensive (in large part due to Cook's generation cutting subsidies that they got), * Environment is shot- that whole global warming thing isn't going away anytime soon. Generally speaking the baby boomers, as a…

What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not malicio…

> what are you asking for?

I want cooperation. Younger people, myself included, want policy changes that will attempt to mitigate some of the damage done by the previous generation. However, boomers are still in power and actively resist changes that attempt to curb issues like climate change and income inequality. I think this is where a lot of resentment comes from. Additionally boomers will be dead before the consequences of their actions have a chance to seriously effect their lives, furthering the resentment.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#102

Post by souprock » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #73

apo wrote: post #52

Context is important. The qualifier at the beginning of the sentence is important: > In some important ways, my generation has failed you in this regard [being too cautious]. We spent too much time debating. We've been too focused on the fight and not focused enough on progress. And you don't need to look far to find an example of that failure. Here today, in this very place, in an arena where thousands once found de…

> Anyone who believes that climate change is caused mostly by human activity should be concerned about this trend. The deeply political nature of the conversation has turned what should be a deliberate discussion about science and policy into a shouting match. The problem isn’t the science as much as the proposed solutions. The more extreme solutions are more about income redistribution rather than actual science. Wh…

No matter which side of the climate politics your beliefs are on, you probably support the proposed solutions that apply to your choice. This is because the human mind works backwards from the solution to the problem, finding logic to justify what is desired. Unless you are one of the rare people whose belief in the validity of "there is human-caused warming we can fix or partially avert" is in disagreement with your belief in the validity of "income redistribution is proper", the failings of the human mind likely apply.

To be extra clear: no matter which side you are on, this DOES NOT just apply to the other team.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#103

Post by chris_va » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:24 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #85

chris_va wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you maybe (or not, couldn't tell) misunderstand the point of the tax. The point is to build a profitable market they can buy from to avoid paying the tax. With my climate hat on (not to be confused with the environmentalist hat), I have no problem with oil companies continuing to pump out oil as long as they put the Co2 back into the ground. If they prefer to pay a $100/ton tax to pump it out over paying some…

You have more authority on this subject than I do, given your background, but I remain convinced that any "solution" in which the oil companies take combustible carbon molecules from "below ground" to "above ground" is doomed, even if reasonable carbon sequestration tech is developed.

You are right that getting every last mole of Co2 in a controlled manner is doomed, but fortunately that is not required. What you really want is for net emissions to go to zero or even negative. If you are just pulling Co2 out of flue gas, that's very difficult (without BECCS, which is a separate thing).

However, Direct Air Capture is also economical at some price point (optimistically around $130/ton). At that point, you don't have to nab every last mole of Co2 that the oil companies pump up because you can always pull it back out of the air. You just need a profitable market to make it economical to spend that money.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#104

Post by neilv » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:25 PM UTC

Tim Cook's generation can't take all the blame -- the Internet could've been a tool to help fix the problems, rather than spy, neuter, and manipulate.

My generation -- teens and college-aged who were already skilled in software and Internet at the start of the dotcom boom, and who seemed to already have a better median sense of Web opportunities and risks than people do today -- we went for the money and power, and often did the exact opposite of what we already knew about what's good for society.

That admitted, don't fall for standard diversionary and divison tactics that blame problems on some group -- whether it's ethnicity, gender, religion, nation, generation, voting group, sports team, or anything else. If you want to identify where to focus problem-solving, some old investigative advice applies: follow the money.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#105

Post by 50656E6973 » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

apo wrote: post #52

Context is important. The qualifier at the beginning of the sentence is important: > In some important ways, my generation has failed you in this regard [being too cautious]. We spent too much time debating. We've been too focused on the fight and not focused enough on progress. And you don't need to look far to find an example of that failure. Here today, in this very place, in an arena where thousands once found de…

Ironic, seeing as how Google is one of the biggest advertising platforms in the world, using their state of the art AI/ML algorithms to manipulate the minds of the masses into endless conspicuous consumption --which is one of the biggest drivers of ecological self destruction.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#106

Post by roenxi » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:33 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #47

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not malicio…

On the whole, I too agree with Pinker. But I don't think it's necessarily mutually exclusive with one generation "failing" another (I hate that wording because it feels reductionist). If the claim is true that the millennial generation is the first to have a lower quality of life than their parents, that sounds a lot like a failure to manage resources given the prosperity you cited. How can we be at the most prospero…

If the millennial generation wants a higher quality of life than their parents, they will need to gather and harvest more resources.

The methods the boomers & prior generations used for that were a combination of investing in fossil fuel extraction infrastructure and sometimes waging war/extracting resources from other countries.

Look at China - massive generational improvement in living standards, massive increase in pollution (to the point where it goes well beyond the theoretical concerns of global warming).

As a body the wannabe thought-leaders of the millennials are inconsistent on this point. Do they care more about wages and living standards, or more about the environment? There is no longer the enthusiastic consensus on living standards that existed in the previous generations.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#107

Post by drcode » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:36 PM UTC

chris_va wrote: post #103

drcode wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have more authority on this subject than I do, given your background, but I remain convinced that any "solution" in which the oil companies take combustible carbon molecules from "below ground" to "above ground" is doomed, even if reasonable carbon sequestration tech is developed.

You are right that getting every last mole of Co2 in a controlled manner is doomed, but fortunately that is not required. What you really want is for net emissions to go to zero or even negative. If you are just pulling Co2 out of flue gas, that's very difficult (without BECCS, which is a separate thing). However, Direct Air Capture is also economical at some price point (optimistically around $130/ton). At that poin…

If this was true, then the oil companies could just build a machine that directly converts hydrocarbons into CO2 underground and extracts the energy in the form of electricity and the hydrocarbons could stay below ground through the entire process.

No carbon taxes necessary.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#108

Post by bsder » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:37 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #37

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not malicio…

I would've asked Boomers to not have wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary military spending (which could've gone to infrastructure, education, and universal healthcare) and countless lives on unnecessary military actions. I would've asked them to not have supported trade pacts that were great for those the jobs went to in developing countries and for domestic consumers of goods where production was off-shored/o…

> I would've asked them to not have allowed private companies to run rampant in healthcare, economically devastating anyone who has chronic health issues or doesn't have a cush employer provided healthcare plan, and then having the audacity of shouting "Socialism!" when healthcare systems working in every other first world country are proposed.

"Boomers" didn't really do this--a small cadre of the ultra-wealthy did this with the help of a lot of stupid people.

"Boomers", in fact, were probably the last generation to engage in successful large-scale labor actions.

The fight isn't between generations--the fight is against the concentration of wealth.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#109

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:39 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #108

toomuchtodo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would've asked Boomers to not have wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary military spending (which could've gone to infrastructure, education, and universal healthcare) and countless lives on unnecessary military actions. I would've asked them to not have supported trade pacts that were great for those the jobs went to in developing countries and for domestic consumers of goods where production was off-shored/o…

> I would've asked them to not have allowed private companies to run rampant in healthcare, economically devastating anyone who has chronic health issues or doesn't have a cush employer provided healthcare plan, and then having the audacity of shouting "Socialism!" when healthcare systems working in every other first world country are proposed. "Boomers" didn't really do this--a small cadre of the ultra-wealthy did t…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#110

Post by darepublic » Mon, May 20, 2019, 11:46 PM UTC

rootoor wrote: post #101

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not malicio…

> what are you asking for? I want cooperation. Younger people, myself included, want policy changes that will attempt to mitigate some of the damage done by the previous generation. However, boomers are still in power and actively resist changes that attempt to curb issues like climate change and income inequality. I think this is where a lot of resentment comes from. Additionally boomers will be dead before the cons…

To me this story of boomers callously enriching themselves at the expense of future generations sounds like just a bigoted unfounded accusation. Talk about not taking responsibility.. foisting all your problems onto the parent generation as if you yourself have no agency to tackle these challenges. Maybe the millenials will be blamed by the next generation for just burying themselves in video games and drugs at the time when climate change became common knowledge, when there was still time to do so something but instead they chose to be pandered to.