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Google suspends some business with Huawei

reuters.com

411–420 of 506 posts

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#411

This has a few interesting potential repercussions that nobody is talking about. Since this is a lose-lose situation for both, here are a some possible outcomes: a) Google moves enough play services code into AOSP to make AOSP more functional than it is now. b) Webapps become more of a thing c) Play services become "downloadable" when you visit google.com d) Play services become standardised and/or federated

All of these scenarios assume Google actively wants to help Huawei succeed.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#412
post #293
post #141

I may have missed this, but have there been any specific accusations against Huawei? It is clear Chinese actors hack and steal IP, but have those been connected to Huawei, or are they just the easiest victim for the US to retaliate against?

Huawei is effectively one arm of the Chinese government, and the Chinese state hackers are another arm of that same government.

Is Cisco that much less aligned with US government interest? I have the feeling it's just down to which government you want to trust.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#413
post #279

This isn't surprising. What the US government wants the government gets. I was working for a large ISP in 2010-2011 and we were considering long haul transport gear between Huawei and Infinera. All things being equal Huawei had a better cost/performance value prop. That was, until the FBI came in with a heavy handed opinion. You see at that point in time the best place to siphon data was at large ingress/egress. As I…

By LE capable firmware you mean that the FBI had a backdoor to eavesdrop? Wow.

I can assure you that every telecom equipment has lawful interception capabilities. Some countries even mandate a standard log format for metadata (Turkey does that). It's just one of the features that the operators ask for when getting their equipment, because they have to comply with local law enforcement.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been watching a lot of videos on Shenzhen and it's just mental. There's basically same day delivery by bicycle or truck of anything your supply line might be running low on. It's like their transport latency is so low and reliable that they don't need as much buffering. It's amazing to see what small and large quantity production lines can look like.

Can you please share those links here

Strange Parts YouTube channel offers some insights into Chinese electronics industry: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO8DQrSp5yEP937qNqTooOw

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#415
post #321

As an Australian with a Hauwei phone, the writing is on the wall for me. Google Android in no longer a universal platform and moving forward, I doubt I'll ever buy anything again Google or US related again in terms of tech. This si no longer a China vs US issue, it's the US vs the world.

It's a China vs. the world issue. China has been spying on everyone, for years. Political, military, commercial, makes no difference.

You can easily find examples where you can replace China with the US. And now with the current American leadership I can't say personally that I trust the US more than China at this point.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#416
post #294

This isn't surprising. What the US government wants the government gets. I was working for a large ISP in 2010-2011 and we were considering long haul transport gear between Huawei and Infinera. All things being equal Huawei had a better cost/performance value prop. That was, until the FBI came in with a heavy handed opinion. You see at that point in time the best place to siphon data was at large ingress/egress. As I…

What most people forget is that in a war the other party shoots back. It may take some time but it will happen and sometimes when you do not expect it. I think that Trump's move with banning Huawei is bad for the US in the mid and long run.

>What most people forget is that in a war the other party shoots back

Yes, and these actions are the US finally shooting back after enduring years of industrial espionage, forced technology transfers, and market access restrictions.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really believe that China doesn't have a deal with Apple that nerfs this in China, I have a bridge to sell you. China, a country which mandates spyware be installed on phones. Which uses deep packet inspection to block access to foreign websites, that bans VPNs in app stores. China, a country which forces the population of Xinjiang to install Jingwang ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingwang_Weishi ), a spywar…

It doesn't matter what you believe because Apple said that was the case in court filings during the FBI legal fight. Tim Cook reaffirmed that in an interview with Vice last fall.

So they said and you believed.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really believe that China doesn't have a deal with Apple that nerfs this in China, I have a bridge to sell you. China, a country which mandates spyware be installed on phones. Which uses deep packet inspection to block access to foreign websites, that bans VPNs in app stores. China, a country which forces the population of Xinjiang to install Jingwang ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingwang_Weishi ), a spywar…

It doesn't matter what you believe because Apple said that was the case in court filings during the FBI legal fight. Tim Cook reaffirmed that in an interview with Vice last fall.

What Apple says about what they do in the US, and what they do in China, are two different things. And what Tim Cook reaffirmed is irrelevant, what matters is how the iMessage protocol works.

As far as I can tell, the way iMessage works according to Apple's documentation, is that endpoints generate 1280-bit RSA encryption keys, hold the private keys on the device, but publish the public keys to a centralized IDS Directory Server. Note that their published security documents curiously don't say anything about man-in-the-middle mitigation, and indeed, MITM attacks against iMessage on IOS9 were publicly documented.

Now, what do you know about where the IDS servers are located in China, and who controls them? Because if Apple doesn't control them, and control them in a way that makes them impossible to spoof, then it is easy for the Chinese government to attack iMessage.

Thus, Tim Cook could say "We haven't put any backdoors into iMessage for the Chinese government and it is end to end encrypted" and it would be a true statement, but also Apple engineers could know full well the IDS in China could be subject to a MITM.

A plausible way this could happen, after Apple moved the iCloud keys to China, is that the Chinese government could request to intercept communications from a particular user, and the public keys of every recipient that user communicates with could be replaced with a MITM key so they can rely the messages and see the unencrypted content.

We don't know, but what we do know is that iMessage has been attacked with MITM before, and we know the PRC isn't going to let unbreakable encryption be sold to Uighurs in Xinjiang. It defies logic.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#419
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is encrypted in transit and at rest. However, that doesn't matter if your attacker (the Chinese government) has the encryption keys

The article refers to icloud encryption keys, not imessage keys. If imessages are backed up to icloud, then the govt will have keys to see them. But if a user doesn't back up, I was under the impression not even apple could decrypt iMessages.

iMessage (public) keys are "backed up" to IDS directory services. This is how Apple devices do key-exchange with one another. If there is no man-in-the-middle mitigation for IDS, then all the Chinese government needs to do is return spoofed keys for anyone you're communicating with. Remember, when you send messages to other people, you encrypt with THEIR key, not yours (on device). Your key is used for signatures and decrypting messages sent to you by them. THEIR Key comes from the cloud, and thus subject to attack if key exchange wasn't secure.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#420
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a China vs. the world issue. China has been spying on everyone, for years. Political, military, commercial, makes no difference.

For the EU it's really just the question if you want to be spied on by the US or by China. In recent years, trade with China has probably helped the economy much more than trade with the US. At the same time, China (while certainly acting out of self interest), is somewhat predictable in their actions. Europeans are really critical of China and their policies (esp. their human rights record). But they don't like the…

As a european, I'll take US over China any day.

Anti-US circlejerk is mostly confined in Western europe (sans Brits). Eastern europe has totally different sentiment.

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