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South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

koreaherald.com

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Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#271
post #210
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

partial counter-point: many large companies, universities, schools etc have switched to things like Google Docs. Most use of office software is simple enough that people can transfer (afaik a big part in the Munich migration was making sure all the templates used for common documents where ported properly and people could easily access to). Specialist software is a big problem of course, likely leading to a parallel…

That is not really a counter point though. I mean, education is part of a municipality, it makes up around 15% of our work force, and you’re right, they could probably be switched to Linux. That doesn’t really make sense though, because our IT staff can’t support it, so we would need 1-2 guys extra which is more expensive than the windows licenses for 1200 employees.

> so we would need 1-2 guys extra which is more expensive than the windows licenses for 1200 employees.

As someone who supports both Windows and Linux laptops, if you switched to Linux your support staff would eventually halve. The control you have over Linux is so tight, its relative immunity viruses, to staff playing with it and adverse Microsoft "upgrades" so good that support literally drops to whatever it takes to keep the hardware going. Or to put it another way: if you need to re-image a Linux laptop, it's because the disk drive broke.

Mind you, it takes a while to get to that point. And you need someone with real Linux expertise. Real Linux expertise unfortunately means when a problem arises gets to the point you would give up and re-image Windows, instead with Linux you haul out the source, and find the root cause. But if you can do that you will be able to drive the software defect rate to near zero.

Or to put it another way again: Windows licences are the price to pay if you don't / can't pay for that sort of expertise, so you are trapped into paying to do it for you. Unfortunately Microsoft is a monopoly, so you end up paying a fair bit more. I'll grant you small enterprises don't have much choice. But I'd expect someone with 1200 employees does have the choice.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do believe Facebook, Amazon, Google and Apple are as evil if not more than MS, but that does not diminish their crimes even a little bit. Twitter much less so imho.

Crimes. Lol that is it. I know you are one of those. Crime means things like murder, burglary, rape, assault. The language you are using sounds like “for their crimes against the state”. You me (ab)use of English is making me chuckle. This whole schtick of acting as if Microsoft goes into peoples homes and rapes their mother is ridiculous and has to end.

> I know you are one of those.

One of what?

White collar crime is still crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation

And that's before we get into tricks like funding SCO to attack Linux and such.

The whole schtick of acting as if Microsoft is lily white because Bill Gates gives away some percentage of his loot and Nadella is better able to do PR than Ballmer has to end.

Anyway, I think we've seen the whole repertoire by now, whataboutism, name calling, strawmen, I'm out of here.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most users, "replacement" mean it can open and edit Microsoft's documents perfectly. For some users, it even means the GUI is just about the same so they don't feel lost. Citation needed. The company I work for switched wholesale away from Microsoft. Management moved first and the rest of us shortly afterwards. Haven't heard any complaints.

And the companies I worked with repeatedly stated that they couldn't possibly switch away because their clients (often the government itself) was using a particular version of MS Office. This often meant we had to use several versions of MS Office, depending on who we were interacting with. The company you work for is one of the enlightened few. Or maybe it's a tech company with an enlightened management?

> The company you work for is one of the enlightened few. Or maybe it's a tech company with an enlightened management?

It is. We are a tech/consulting company, but management is management and we also have a good number of employees older than me (and I think that is great :-)

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimes. Lol that is it. I know you are one of those. Crime means things like murder, burglary, rape, assault. The language you are using sounds like “for their crimes against the state”. You me (ab)use of English is making me chuckle. This whole schtick of acting as if Microsoft goes into peoples homes and rapes their mother is ridiculous and has to end.

> I know you are one of those. One of what? White collar crime is still crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation And that's before we get into tricks like funding SCO to attack Linux and such. The whole schtick of acting as if Microsoft is lily white because Bill Gates gives away some percentage of his loot and Nadella is better able to do PR than Ballmer has to end. Anyway, I think we've seen the wh…

> White collar crime is still crime.

Oh comon. We know that most of the fanatics would like to see Gates in Chains.

> Anyway, I think we've seen the whole repertoire by now, whataboutism, name calling, strawmen, I'm out of here.

LOL. I always find it funny once you call out Linux fanatics on their nonsense they run away by claiming all sorts of things of their opponent. I didn't name call you, I just said you fit a pattern of a stereotype that I seen before, that isn't an Ad-hominem attack that is pattern recognition.

You provided no evidence other than the usual nonsense of pretending that Microsoft don't have a right to protect their IP and the conspiracy theories that Microsoft are this all powerful entity.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#275

What I really don't understand is why commercial stations (like burger king's, ice cream stands etc...) uses windows when all those computers do is show either videos or static images

The correct question is: Why should they use Linux? Historically, Linux struggled to display video. The companies that make that stuff started out with Windows, they have built a workflow to manage these devices on top of Windows, why switch now? It's not cost effective.

each windows distribution in theory needs a license. I don't know how big companies like Burger King handles those bulk licenses, but linux would be a lot more cost effective in this department

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically Total Cost of Ownership (TCO). This is something people forget about. OS and app licenses are likely a drop in the ocean compared to the operating costs of supporting your infrastructure (regardless of whether it runs on Windows or Linux). [edit: TOC -> TCO]

TCO was also a big part of the marketing campaign of Microsoft against Linux in the late 90ies, early 00s. A big difference compared to one or two decades ago is that a lot of domain-specific services have moved to web applications. So, there are probably a lot of machines out there that are just glorified web browsing machines. Also, the popularity of iOS and Android have made more applications cross-platform. Of co…

Try OnlyOffice. Works a lot better re compatibility with office files IMHO.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing user hostility (see: forced updates "for your own good"), poorer quality software released more often, no QA, ridiculously convoluted dependency management...

What distro are you using that has these issues? My Debian server has been running solidly for years without crashing or (automatically) updating. I've also never had any problems with QA or package management; everything installed with the system package manager has always run, installed, and updated smoothly. I'm not a linux expert, but what you described are all issues I associate exclusively with Windows and, to…

A server is generally a single purpose device, and the server stuff in Linux is pretty mature because people make money off of it.

Run Linux on a Desktop and it's a whole different story. Shit breaks all the time, the package dependency spaghetti is insane, no one seems to test anything (or they don't listen to the people who do), etc.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux will allow anything as a valid file name. Including slashes, colons, new line characters and even none-printable characters. Usually GUIs filter will catch the worst offenders but it’s less of an issue on the CLI because you can escape all of those weird characters pretty easily (at least it’s easy once you know how. There is a little bit of a discoverability problem there though). Windows, on the other hand, n…

No warning, no opting out - that's a huge problem. It means you absolutely should not mix these two OSes.

I don’t see a problem mixing those two OSs if that’s what you really want to do. If we’re honest, it’s pretty edge case stuff we are talking about and most users experienced enough to be mixing Windows and Linux systems would be aware of the limitations of Windows when it comes to naming things. Granted the reserved namespace problem, COM1 et al, is far less discoverable; but it’s also far less common of a trap. So it’s not something that comes up that often if your team are aware of the problems.

Worst scenario is you’re dealing with a non-technical team but in those instances you’d keep your storage centralised and use an NT based solution (or something with first party support for AD) so you catch any Windows related bugs at save time rather than further down the road when you need to access them again. Given file names in Windows is limited by both the file system and the OS, whereas Linux is limited only by the file system, all you really need to do is catch those Windows-related errors. So running an NT-based storage array would solve that problem.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#279
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TCO was also a big part of the marketing campaign of Microsoft against Linux in the late 90ies, early 00s. A big difference compared to one or two decades ago is that a lot of domain-specific services have moved to web applications. So, there are probably a lot of machines out there that are just glorified web browsing machines. Also, the popularity of iOS and Android have made more applications cross-platform. Of co…

Linux workstations, Office 365 -- skip LibreOffice.

In my experience O365 office web applications are no competition even for Libre/OpenOffice. Has that changed lately?

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#280

As I recall, this sort of public statement is used as a lever to squeeze some discounts out of Microsoft's Enterprise Sales team before the government "decides" to stay with Windows.

Good ol' "Cristiano Ronaldo wants to return to Manchester United" every time he wanted a raise from Real Madrid.
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