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South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

koreaherald.com

251–260 of 282 posts

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you think of Linux distros as apt/yum tells a lot about the bias in our statements.

They are the most common package managers, right? Could just as easily have listed some more niche ones, I'm an Arch user after all, but it wouldn't have illustrated my point any better.

> I'm an Arch user after all

Thanks for letting us know, couln't have guessed it.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#252
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood the clamour for rolling a new distro. Maintaining an apt/yum repository and creating a meta-package or package group should be more than enough.

To be fair, "a new distro" often isn't that much different: You take the package repository of an existing distro, tweak some packages and add your own packages on top. I'd say the main difference is that just an additional repository on existing system might break if that base distro updates, while you control that if you go entirely through your own repo.

Very true, I actually envisioned something like a shell or a chromeOS-like shell to avoid having government workers learn command line and such.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#253

What does 'Linux OS' mean? Various Linux desktop distros? If so, have mercy on anyone who will be using Ubuntu Desktop for the first time. I hope they aren't afraid of using Terminal, because the internet will shout them down for wanting a GUI solution. Love Ubuntu server, but could never get into linux desktop.

The elitism can be absurd. Sometimes I wonder if it's stockholm syndrome. "You want to configure things with a GUI with discoverability? Not read a dissertation-length man page and edit config files whose syntax changes between versions so you can't even rely on google results? Go back to winbl0ws"

I like GUI programs but even on Windows some setups are easier done using command line because I at least could repeat the correct command sequences in the right order.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out that the most serious file name issues are mostly down to disagreements between Linux and Windows about what characters are kosher - Linux allows a finger-slip to insert characters in folder and file names (such as a forward slash) that cause windows to crash out of copying tasks without specific explanations. It's taking me more than a week to isolate and fix these issues one by one in a large file system.…

Linux will allow anything as a valid file name. Including slashes, colons, new line characters and even none-printable characters. Usually GUIs filter will catch the worst offenders but it’s less of an issue on the CLI because you can escape all of those weird characters pretty easily (at least it’s easy once you know how. There is a little bit of a discoverability problem there though). Windows, on the other hand, n…

Thanks for clarification, haven't realized until now that some of my previous problems with Windows might have been the result of hard-coded characters and those reserved name gotchas.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/fileio/nami...

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You might not like this line of argument, but it's not a "conspiracy theory" since it's well-supported. But it isn't. You just asserted it. I don't dispute the facts at hand, but you can't just link those together and assert causality when there is no evidence for it . >It's disingenuous to completely dismiss the role of political influence on a government decision. I don't know what to do with that. There is no evi…

Government decisions are often the result of more than one factor. I did not assert that Microsoft's move to Munich was the only reason for the city's change from LiMux to Windows. But, Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. Politics played a role in the city's decision, and there is sufficient press coverage to support this. See the TechRepublic article in my parent comm…

How is what you're doing not FUD? You have no evidence for anything you're stating. Zero.

>Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there.

And did it actually influence the decision of Munich to change their infrastructure? And how much? 10% or 90%? Let's say it was a minor consideration, on the order of 1%, and the rest was the result of the failure of the LiMux deployment itself - see what I mean about needing evidence. You can't just say things because of your FEELS.

Again, one thing we know, it wasn't a great deployment.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, to summarize: vendor lock-in is a thing and the best way to get there is to create closed stuff that open source then has no chance to properly deal with. You can use this to strong-arm all kinds of entities to deal with you on your terms. No. Please don't put words into my mouth. The problem is that there is no specs / documentation for anything generally. Most of my time in dev has been spent dealing and find…

I do believe Facebook, Amazon, Google and Apple are as evil if not more than MS, but that does not diminish their crimes even a little bit. Twitter much less so imho.

Crimes. Lol that is it. I know you are one of those. Crime means things like murder, burglary, rape, assault. The language you are using sounds like “for their crimes against the state”. You me (ab)use of English is making me chuckle.

This whole schtick of acting as if Microsoft goes into peoples homes and rapes their mother is ridiculous and has to end.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#257
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically why vendor lock-in works, you'll always stay on Windows. I get that, but that's the case for everything. If you want to change anything in your life, there's some need to get out of your comfort zone, since not doing so means only doing what you're comfortable with, thus not changing anything. There's no doubt there'll be increased support costs in the short term, but this should be a long-term inves…

I actually personally think all public software should be open source so citizens can have access to what they pay for. It’s a tough sell though, because of how massive of an undertaking it is. We simply have too much software that only runs on; and too much staff schooled for Windows. You’re right that we could change if we wanted to, but it’s just hard to justify such an investment in an area where it would mean th…

> That doesn’t mean we can’t get there eventually. We try to buy more and more open source, we set up co-operations across municipalities to define architectural standards so suppliers can’t define our infrastructure anymore

That's nice to hear. I think your best bet is indeed to slowly make sure you're not dependent on Microsoft. Even if Windows never wholly goes, at least Linux could then be a viable option for new deployments, or for smaller departments.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#258

I remember hearing years ago IE usage was crazy high in South Korea because they had laws in place requiring all online banking customers to install an ActiveX control. If that's true... Then they've come pretty far.

OK so Korea has this weird system which says most banking/e-commerce transactions must be authenticated by a home-grown, country wide asymmetric crypto system. Basically to do commerce stuff online, you need to get a public key certificate that you can sign your online activity with from either the government or a banking institution.

The crypto nerds (including me) might think this is a splendid idea--perfect security!

The downside: they did this to shift the blame to the consumer if something goes wrong. If there is a credit card fraud, the consumer is automatically at fault by default, since obviously the consumer mishandled the public key crypto file. This makes sense, but this also means no chargebacks and other nasty side effects.

Also, this also meant that you had to install a bunch of ActiveX verging-on-malware-ware to get your banking shit settled. Now it supports Chrome and Firefox but holy crap, they install a ton of weird malware protection software and I'm pretty sure some of them take a cut from your computer's performance and stability. I'm just glad they don't display fucking ads.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't run Windows 7 on Skylake and greater chipsets.

Intel i5 6600K on a Z170 with Windows 7 reporting in, that statement is definitely not true. Installing is not straightforward though, you have to load drivers into the installation environment if you're using M.2 or USB 3.x. IMHO the effort I need to learn that causes me far less frustration than having to use Windows 10. My total experience (helping colleagues/friends with their Win 10 systems) is probably less tha…

Oops, I got the chipset wrong. It's Kaby Lake that I was thinking of. Apologies.
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