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South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

koreaherald.com

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Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#211

Post by excalibur »

> The transition to Linux OS and the purchase of new PCs are expected to cost the government about 780 billion won ($655 million), the ministry said.

You're doing it wrong. The government should have a robust hierarchy of support staff in place. While the transition will consume a significant amount of their time and therefore cost money, it's money that you were spending anyway, and was already budgeted. New PCs are not required for Linux, except in cases where their existing hardware is damaged or insufficient, which again should already be in the budget.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#212

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

pferde wrote: post #205
markvdb wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that criteria (which are real criteria from real people), the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office, is the next version of Microsoft Office. By that criteria, the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office is the _same_ version of Microsoft Office. The delta between two Microsoft Office versions has often been larger than between a Microsoft Office version and a LibreOffice version...

But the two MS Office versions both have a Microsoft logo on them. People will grumble, but get used to the new version, whereas if you give them something with a different logo, they will scream bloody murder and demand that you get rid of that weird program and give them back their Office programs.

This kind of condescension is why people hate tech people. Is it any wonder they don't want to use Linux with sentiments like this being so common?

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#213

Post by gmueckl »

mook wrote: post #184
gmueckl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS had completely separate custom builds of Windows (made out of completely different binaries) until XP at least. E.g. an English Windows and a German Windows would install completely different files and the only way tonswitch system language was a reinstall. Conponents to support CJK were not part of these installs, either. This changed with Vista or 7 (don't remember) where they were able to seperate Windows into…

Actually I believe Windows 2000 had support for language packs (MUI if I remember correctly). You _had_ to start with an en-US install to use those, so the bit about different language versions installing different files was still correct. Components for CJK support was a check box in the Language & Region control panel, which required the Windows install disc to apply. I think the language packs might not have been…

How would the language packs have worked? Back then the translations were created by patching the resource tables of the compiled binaries. So notepad.exe with German localization would just contain the German strings instead of the English ones. There were no external string tables that I am aware of. That came with Vista, I believe. Since then, every language version is (finally!) the same base install plus the appropriate and exchangeable language pack.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#214

Post by supercanuck »

ethbro wrote: post #172
teh_klev wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some spectacular cockups over the years and eye watering sums of money burned because no-one factored in risk properly. And they more often than not happen on government projects, and usually some big name consultancy is heavily involved - Capita, PwC et-al.

Having worked the consultant gig for a bit, we never talked about risk. Honestly, because most customers sponsoring projects were morons. If you told them there was a 25% chance of failure, they'd go with someone else who claimed a 0% chance of failure. I finally decided most of this was just sponsors covering their ass. If they initiated a project with risk and it failed, that reflected on them. If they initiated a…

This is pretty much the reason consultants exist. They are the employee's risk insurance.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#215

Post by TimTheTinker »

markvdb wrote: post #194
loup-vaillant wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most users, "replacement" mean it can open and edit Microsoft's documents perfectly. For some users, it even means the GUI is just about the same so they don't feel lost. By that criteria (which are real criteria from real people), the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office, is the next version of Microsoft Office. The only way to break out of this, I think, is for governments to forbid themselves to use pr…

> By that criteria (which are real criteria from real people), the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office, is the next version of Microsoft Office. By that criteria, the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office is the _same_ version of Microsoft Office. The delta between two Microsoft Office versions has often been larger than between a Microsoft Office version and a LibreOffice version...

Well, newer MS Office versions are still 100% file-compatible with older versions.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#216

Post by commoner »

macspoofing wrote: post #209
commoner wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft made major political moves after LiMux adoption began. They relocated their German headquarters to Munich, and a new mayor (Dieter Reiter) was elected after the Microsoft employees moved to Munich. Reiter initiated the reversal from LiMux to Windows, while the previous mayor (Christian Ude) refused to do so despite in-person appeals from Steve Ballmer. You might not like this line of argument, but it's not…

>You might not like this line of argument, but it's not a "conspiracy theory" since it's well-supported. But it isn't. You just asserted it. I don't dispute the facts at hand, but you can't just link those together and assert causality when there is no evidence for it . >It's disingenuous to completely dismiss the role of political influence on a government decision. I don't know what to do with that. There is no evi…

Government decisions are often the result of more than one factor.

I did not assert that Microsoft's move to Munich was the only reason for the city's change from LiMux to Windows. But, Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. Politics played a role in the city's decision, and there is sufficient press coverage to support this. See the TechRepublic article in my parent comment.

You're arguing that the deployment of LiMux itself was the one and only reason for Munich's return to Windows, and dismissing the role of politics in Munich's decision as a "conspiracy theory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#217

Post by kijin »

lasagnaphil wrote: post #135
kijin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word processor by Hancom is actually pretty nice, especially for composing Korean-only and mixed Korean-and-English documents. I've been using it since before I even knew that MS Word existed, and I still prefer it to MS Word for anything that contains CJK characters. The proprietary file format is a PITA, though. Hancom did release a Linux version of their office suite a few years ago, and regularly updates the…

To explain the history a little bit (as a Korean): Hancom's Hangul software was popular in Korea in the 90s because of its splendid Hangul support (Word wasn't that good at it back in the day). So it became a de-facto "standard" for Korean documents. But the problem was, piracy was really rampant at the time, because it was before online DRM protection technologies came into light. (They've tried hardware DRM, like t…

It's not just layout (which goes way beyond nested tables -- I always go for Hangul when I want sub-millimeter precision) but also typography that makes a huge difference. Hangul was built from the ground up to accommodate the needs of CJK typography.

You can tell that Word was never designed with CJK typography in mind when you write a sentence in English, try to add a word in Korean, and watch in horror as the entire line (and sometimes the entire page!) jiggles up and down while Word tries to figure out the line spacing (leading). By default, Word doesn't know how to keep leading consistent when you mix CJK and Latin characters in the same line, resulting in a very unprofessional-looking document. Hangul gets it right the first time.

On the other hand, Word blows Hangul out of the water when it comes to Latin typography.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#218

Post by barry-cotter »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #212
pferde wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the two MS Office versions both have a Microsoft logo on them. People will grumble, but get used to the new version, whereas if you give them something with a different logo, they will scream bloody murder and demand that you get rid of that weird program and give them back their Office programs.

This kind of condescension is why people hate tech people. Is it any wonder they don't want to use Linux with sentiments like this being so common?

Condescension does not change the fact that that’s an accurate description of the behaviour of some people, any more than it would change a left wing sneer at right wingers who think climate change isn’t a big deal, or a right wing sneer at left wingers who think evolution in humans stopped at the neck.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#219

Post by acct1771 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #212
pferde wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the two MS Office versions both have a Microsoft logo on them. People will grumble, but get used to the new version, whereas if you give them something with a different logo, they will scream bloody murder and demand that you get rid of that weird program and give them back their Office programs.

This kind of condescension is why people hate tech people. Is it any wonder they don't want to use Linux with sentiments like this being so common?

Have seen this exact problem get fixed by using the little blue E icon for Firefox.

Walk a mile in our shoes. You understand truths about your job we may not.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#220

Post by acct1771 »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #215
markvdb wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that criteria (which are real criteria from real people), the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office, is the next version of Microsoft Office. By that criteria, the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office is the _same_ version of Microsoft Office. The delta between two Microsoft Office versions has often been larger than between a Microsoft Office version and a LibreOffice version...

Well, newer MS Office versions are still 100% file-compatible with older versions.

(With compatibility packages)
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