Google suspends some business with Huawei • Hacker News Board

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#301

Post by option » Mon, May 20, 2019, 2:51 AM UTC

mhkool wrote: post #294

windexh8er wrote: post #274

This isn't surprising. What the US government wants the government gets. I was working for a large ISP in 2010-2011 and we were considering long haul transport gear between Huawei and Infinera. All things being equal Huawei had a better cost/performance value prop. That was, until the FBI came in with a heavy handed opinion. You see at that point in time the best place to siphon data was at large ingress/egress. As I…

What most people forget is that in a war the other party shoots back. It may take some time but it will happen and sometimes when you do not expect it. I think that Trump's move with banning Huawei is bad for the US in the mid and long run.

sometimes whoever shots first wins

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#302

Post by roca » Mon, May 20, 2019, 2:55 AM UTC

aristophenes wrote: post #158

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So basically a viewpoint that I tend to agree with is that this is all about resetting the trade relationship to a normal one between peers. Fairly sure you're wrong on this, the US now wants an advantageous relationship. Not an even score. Just returning to even ground would let China keep the advantages it has reaped.

That would be reasonable, but China has had such an advantage for so long that just getting them to a level playing field will appear to be a devastating loss. This has been furthered by how the situation has been portrayed in the media in both China and the US and around the world, with the US as the aggressor. I believe this has caused the Chinese government to miscalculate, thinking the US will lose support and ba…

Actually China has longstanding demographic, environmental and political problems that make its eventual dominance far from certain. They're moving away from the one-child policy too late, they're deep into the modern low-fertility-preference zone now (but more so than other modern countries because of environmental constraints), and there is no prospect of significant immigration to pick up the slack.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#303

Post by yding » Mon, May 20, 2019, 2:57 AM UTC

moneywoes wrote: post #266

ghobs91 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears they're only losing access to American hardware and software. So that would mean Android, Gorilla Glass screens, Qualcomm processors, etc.

Well they already have their own processors so I imagine that won't be a huge loss.

What about the ARM license? Sure they design their own processors but that doesn't help if ARM doesn't let them use the instruction set.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#304

Post by roca » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #127

crdoconnor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motives: * Trump has been on at China for a long time. * US establishment growing increasingly worried about the sophistication of Chinese tech and are viewing Huawei as a strategic threat. Especially since the latest generation of Chinese telecoms tech has arguably leapfrogged western offerings. Free trade works brilliantly until you stop being the top dog. * NSA doesn't the idea of Chinese being able to use their t…

BBC Click covered the issue https://youtu.be/yCzNHi9TBCQ?t=690 onwards. They say Huawei claim to be 18months ahead [12m35] of everyone with 5G, and their interview with UK's intelligence advisor [16m20 onwards] suggested that there's not really a security problem. They do talk about [17m04+] the possibility of the network being shutdown and the fallout of that, and have a dramatisation.

Research clearly shows that practically undetectable hardware backdoors are not difficult to build. For example: http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/543048/26931843/146401... Anyone who says they're confident there aren't any can't be trusted.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#305

Post by roca » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:04 AM UTC

rl3 wrote: post #191

I'd love to see a forensic level reverse engineering/technical audit of the Nexus 6P hardware. In reality Chinese intelligence likely wasn't stupid enough to try anything there, but I often wonder how many eyes Google had on hardware security for that project considering it was Huawei making their flagship phone at the time. I also wonder if there were any NSA efforts to tear the thing apart, since they are likely be…

It's difficult to do a thorough audit even if you trust the chip layout as designed. Effectively impossible if you don't. http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/543048/26931843/146401...

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#306

Post by askvictor » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:05 AM UTC

morpheuskafka wrote: post #280

yskchu wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between Huawei's situation and Microsoft's situation is that Microsoft's app store is not compatible with Android or IOS (obviously, different OS) While if Huawei uses the Android open source base, the only thing they have to do is entice developers to submit another copy of their app to their store, which is a much lower barrier than the one MS faced to develop a whole new ecosystem

Not if that app depends on Google Play Services, which most developers targeting "Android" take for granted.

Perhaps Huawei will assist in the development of microg (https://microg.org/) - a free (as in freedom) drop-in replacement for Google Play Services.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#307

Post by xiechao06 » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

dharma1 wrote: post #190

Think this will have long reaching ramifications. Huawei is much closer to the Chinese government than ZTE was - this won't go without repercussions. A version of Android/replacement to Android that is used by most Chinese phones but not in the hands of Google seems like the inevitable outcome. We already know China can produce world class hardware - I wonder how they will fare at operating systems. It's not an easy…

Huawei ex-employee here, all Chinese private companies with employees over 30 must have a CCP committee, actually, Huawei, Xiaomi, ZTE, .etc. are fully controlled by CCP.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#308

Post by roca » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #206

rl3 wrote: post #191

I'd love to see a forensic level reverse engineering/technical audit of the Nexus 6P hardware. In reality Chinese intelligence likely wasn't stupid enough to try anything there, but I often wonder how many eyes Google had on hardware security for that project considering it was Huawei making their flagship phone at the time. I also wonder if there were any NSA efforts to tear the thing apart, since they are likely be…

Why is China so likely to bug the phone but the NSA isn't?

Even if the NSA backdoors phones, you have to consider which government you trust more. The US government isn't great but China's is far worse.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#309

Post by sanxiyn » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

mtw wrote: post #249

Was Huawei explicitly named in the executive order? To my understanding, no, so I don't get why the story focuses on Huawei. For example, Motorola, owned by chinese company Lenovo, One Plus, Xiaomi or Oppo should not use Android either. Trump also named many other countries as threats to national security, such as Canada, Germany, Mexico, and many others. There's no reason one day South Korea enters the list and Sams…

Huawei is explicitly named in Federal Register 2019-10616. Lenovo, Xiaomi, etc. is not.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.g...

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#310

Post by luckylion » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:07 AM UTC

roca wrote: post #300

luckylion wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that China will throw Google out. It's a bit of a reminder that Google is under US jurisdiction and there's a point to be made that, no matter what they promise you, if the US wants their data, they get their data. More competition can only be good, if this leads to the Chinese creating a third major platform, I welcome it. If they open source it, they may even have success outside of China.

As a non-American I'd much rather the USA has my data than China has it.

Maybe. I'd prefer that neither of them have my data.

I do believe that competition limits the exploits. If there's an alternative, you have to fear losing your customers (and their money), so you limit what you do to them. If there isn't any, why would you? Right now, the competition is basically only Apple vs Google. Both USA, both from California. A bit more diversity would be nice.