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South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

koreaherald.com

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Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#261

Post by pferde »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #212
pferde wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the two MS Office versions both have a Microsoft logo on them. People will grumble, but get used to the new version, whereas if you give them something with a different logo, they will scream bloody murder and demand that you get rid of that weird program and give them back their Office programs.

This kind of condescension is why people hate tech people. Is it any wonder they don't want to use Linux with sentiments like this being so common?

Where in my comment did you see any opinion being expressed? I merely described something that I encountered many, many times. You do not have to believe me, that is up to you.

Not everything is an adversarial thing about two opposing groups of people.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#262

Post by commoner »

macspoofing wrote: post #255
commoner wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government decisions are often the result of more than one factor. I did not assert that Microsoft's move to Munich was the only reason for the city's change from LiMux to Windows. But, Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. Politics played a role in the city's decision, and there is sufficient press coverage to support this. See the TechRepublic article in my parent comm…

How is what you're doing not FUD? You have no evidence for anything you're stating. Zero. >Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. And did it actually influence the decision of Munich to change their infrastructure? And how much? 10% or 90%? Let's say it was a minor consideration, on the order of 1%, and the rest was the result of the failure of the LiMux deployment itself…

Read the TechTarget article from my first comment, which you've overlooked the last two times I mentioned it:

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp...

There are additional sources describing politics as a significant factor in the city's decision:

https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-l...

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https:/...

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

Reiter based the decision to switch back from LiMux to Windows on a report commissioned from Accenture, "the leading Microsoft services provider for the ninth consecutive year" with an obvious conflict of interest:

https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/accenture-and-avanade-na...

https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-partner-claims-munic...

I invite you to provide evidence for your assertion that the role of politics in Munich's decision is a "conspiracy theory" and "FUD".

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#263

Post by detaro »

commoner wrote: post #262
macspoofing wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is what you're doing not FUD? You have no evidence for anything you're stating. Zero. >Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. And did it actually influence the decision of Munich to change their infrastructure? And how much? 10% or 90%? Let's say it was a minor consideration, on the order of 1%, and the rest was the result of the failure of the LiMux deployment itself…

Read the TechTarget article from my first comment, which you've overlooked the last two times I mentioned it: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp... There are additional sources describing politics as a significant factor in the city's decision: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-l... https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https:/... https://translate.goo…

To note is that accenture didn't even go as far as to recommend the complete switch back to Windows the city decided to do.

EDIT: > role of politics

Role of politics is a somewhat different claim than just "pressure/influence by Microsoft" (which for sure happened, but it's hard to gauge how large the influence was), and includes lots of other factors that are likely to have also played a role. The entire thing is quite murky and I think "it happened because X" is too easy whatever the X is.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#264

Post by macspoofing »

commoner wrote: post #262
macspoofing wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is what you're doing not FUD? You have no evidence for anything you're stating. Zero. >Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. And did it actually influence the decision of Munich to change their infrastructure? And how much? 10% or 90%? Let's say it was a minor consideration, on the order of 1%, and the rest was the result of the failure of the LiMux deployment itself…

Read the TechTarget article from my first comment, which you've overlooked the last two times I mentioned it: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp... There are additional sources describing politics as a significant factor in the city's decision: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-l... https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https:/... https://translate.goo…

Unbelievable. You keep spreading FUD. Literal definition of FUD. Now it's Accenture who is secretly killing the project because they are in pocket of Microsoft. And why is Accenture involved? Because Munich commissioned their opinion. And why did Munich commission their opinion? Because they are in the pocket of Microsoft of course. And why is Munich in the pocket of Microsoft? Why, because Microsoft moved their German headquarters Munich - not for any business reasons - but for secret nefarious reasons. And where did the move it from? Why, from Unterschleißheim a city (suburb) approximately 16KM away!!!!!! Surely no corporation would ever want to move downtown to a major metropolis from a suburb into a bigger office complex. Let me repeat that: this nefarious move you keep using as an example, was a grand total of 16 km, from a suburb of Munich to Munich.

AGAIN, the BIG picture - this deployment didn't turn out to be the success Munich had hoped it was going to be. They could limp along, sure, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who like it, especially the guy who runs the entire project, and the people who are ideological inclined against Microsoft, and the Green party...

I mean Jesus, the only way they could get this LiMux thing to work was by maintaining Windows licenses for legacy software and interoperability, virtualizing Office because OpenOffice/LibreOffice sucks (and it does), and moving to Exchange for Calendar and Email. This is a chimera. It sucks.

There were good reason to ditch Windows in the first place, and now there are good reasons to ditch this Linux experiment as well. That's the big picture.

>I invite you to provide evidence for your assertion that the role of politics in Munich's decision is a "conspiracy theory" and "FUD".

I invite you to provide evidence that your bias has not coloured your interpretation of events. Have fun proving a negative.

(I read all the things you cited - it's the same kind of stuff - high on speculation, light on evidence).

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#265

Post by stefco_ »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #159
justwalt wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while embracing all the bad behaviors that entails What do you mean by this?

Increasing user hostility (see: forced updates "for your own good"), poorer quality software released more often, no QA, ridiculously convoluted dependency management...

What distro are you using that has these issues? My Debian server has been running solidly for years without crashing or (automatically) updating. I've also never had any problems with QA or package management; everything installed with the system package manager has always run, installed, and updated smoothly. I'm not a linux expert, but what you described are all issues I associate exclusively with Windows and, to a lesser extent, recent MacOS, both of which I also use frequently.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#266

Post by chmln »

Nomentatus wrote: post #223
chmln wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specific issues did you have with the GUI? Not sure if you know but there are a number of other polished DEs apart from Gnome. Sounds like your graphics card doesn't work well with Linux. Is it Nvidia ?

It is, but I'd be shocked if it were involved, I've tried to keep it out of the mix with Linux.

With nvidia, you must absolutely make sure you are using the proprietary drivers if you want a good experience. Some distros (like Pop OS) use these out of the box, but most (like Debian) use open-source nouveau.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#267

Post by Nomentatus »

pushpop wrote: post #235
Nomentatus wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out that the most serious file name issues are mostly down to disagreements between Linux and Windows about what characters are kosher - Linux allows a finger-slip to insert characters in folder and file names (such as a forward slash) that cause windows to crash out of copying tasks without specific explanations. It's taking me more than a week to isolate and fix these issues one by one in a large file system.…

Linux will allow anything as a valid file name. Including slashes, colons, new line characters and even none-printable characters. Usually GUIs filter will catch the worst offenders but it’s less of an issue on the CLI because you can escape all of those weird characters pretty easily (at least it’s easy once you know how. There is a little bit of a discoverability problem there though). Windows, on the other hand, n…

No warning, no opting out - that's a huge problem. It means you absolutely should not mix these two OSes.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#268

Post by commoner »

macspoofing wrote: post #264
commoner wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the TechTarget article from my first comment, which you've overlooked the last two times I mentioned it: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp... There are additional sources describing politics as a significant factor in the city's decision: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-l... https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https:/... https://translate.goo…

Unbelievable. You keep spreading FUD. Literal definition of FUD. Now it's Accenture who is secretly killing the project because they are in pocket of Microsoft. And why is Accenture involved? Because Munich commissioned their opinion. And why did Munich commission their opinion? Because they are in the pocket of Microsoft of course. And why is Munich in the pocket of Microsoft? Why, because Microsoft moved their Germ…

> Why, because Microsoft moved their German headquarters Munich - not for any business reasons - but for secret nefarious reasons.

Here is where you are misinterpreting all of the above. I did not say there were any "secret nefarious reasons". All involved parties made the decision that would be most beneficial to them ("business reasons" in the case of Microsoft), which influenced Munich's reversal.

Munich's switch to LiMux was an embarrassment to Microsoft, and one of the reasons for their move to Munich was to gain political clout by becoming a more important stakeholder to Munich. Generally speaking, companies have more influence on a city's decisions when they are actually located in the city, because they pay taxes to the city and have more employees living there. This isn't a "conspiracy theory", it's common sense.

In summary:

You: Munich switched back to Windows solely because there were issues with the LiMux deployment, and Windows software is superior to Linux software.

Me: Munich switched back to Windows because there were issues with the LiMux deployment, and because Microsoft made itself more important to Munich by moving its headquarters to the city.

We can agree to disagree.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#269

Post by johnyoon »

I did some search and found that the distros that Korean government is considering are: Gooroom OS, which is being developed by Hancom since 2015 but were never released, Ubuntu, and HarmoniKR based on LinuxMint. They are considering web-based office suite so LibreOffice is may not be among consideration.

There are options such as PolarisOffice and Naver Office, but given that Hancom Office has a stake in the game, their cloud service HancomSpace along with Hancom Online may gain momentum. In the worst case scenario, I could see Korean government see Office 365 as a fallback.

https://www.zdnet.co.kr/view/?no=20190516093822 https://namu.wiki/w/%EA%B5%AC%EB%A6%84%20OS https://space.malangmalang.com/ https://www.hancom.com/product/productNetfficeMain.do

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#270

Post by thewhitetulip »

babakandishmand wrote: post #252
detaro wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, "a new distro" often isn't that much different: You take the package repository of an existing distro, tweak some packages and add your own packages on top. I'd say the main difference is that just an additional repository on existing system might break if that base distro updates, while you control that if you go entirely through your own repo.

Very true, I actually envisioned something like a shell or a chromeOS-like shell to avoid having government workers learn command line and such.

Exactly. Maybe they'll be like OxygenOS to Android.
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