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Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

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Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#111

Post by anthuman »

mirimir wrote: post #84

There are further implications. For example, since WWII, there have been huge efforts to identify and locate war criminals. So now, where there's DNA evidence, that could continue, even though such criminals had died. And in future wars, combatants will perhaps make efforts to retain DNA evidence. Having war be less anonymous is arguably a great thing.

There have been efforts to identify and locate "war criminals" of one side. No effort has been made to identify, locate and charge war criminals of the other side ( which has far more war criminals if we are being honest ).

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#112

Post by Meh_So_What »

carbocation wrote: post #8

The use of DNA in ways not anticipated by informed [1] consent is wrong. 1 = Not just a signature on the form. But a real understanding of what we're going to use it for.

  Norton stressed on Tuesday 
  that the Wypych family has 
  been nothing but cooperative.
So, in this case, everything is hunky dorie, obviously. And because it's squeaky clean, we can all back slap and trumpet the publicity.

But, you know, some realities change and others don't. I think it's probably helpful that the bar against mistaken identity is raised.

Meanwhile, with all this new fangled technology floating around, it doesn't really prevent crime from happening. It mostly just means you catch the sloppy ones.

When game changers show up in a game of cat and mouse, the game doesn't end. Sometimes you get a cold war and an arms race.

In this situation, I think the cold war is a good thing. Knowing cold wars for what they are, though, I suppose we should brace ourselves for some Viet Nams.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#113

Post by mirimir »

anthuman wrote: post #111
mirimir wrote: post #84

There are further implications. For example, since WWII, there have been huge efforts to identify and locate war criminals. So now, where there's DNA evidence, that could continue, even though such criminals had died. And in future wars, combatants will perhaps make efforts to retain DNA evidence. Having war be less anonymous is arguably a great thing.

There have been efforts to identify and locate "war criminals" of one side. No effort has been made to identify, locate and charge war criminals of the other side ( which has far more war criminals if we are being honest ).

I was aiming for neutrality.

But yes, you're probably right. Although I'm not sure which "other side" you mean. And still, none of that is relevant to the point about anonymity of war.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#114

Post by evgen »

qwsxyh wrote: post #92
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? Consider how your family members might feel about it? It's not just about dead you.

It is only about dead me. It's my body.

Once you are dead it is no longer your body. The dead have no rights. None whatsoever.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#115

Post by evgen »

vkou wrote: post #59
mikeash wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? I see no problem with exhuming a corpse to solve a murder case as long as there’s probable cause and a warrant, which there was here.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? Because our society believes in body autonomy, to the point that it won't use your body's organs to save other human beings, without your express consent. Your body is your property, and it takes a damn good reason for someone else to access your property, contrary to your will.

Your body is your property up until the point when you die. Once you are dead you no longer have rights and your body becomes the property of your estate, a much weaker claim than body autonomy and one that the state can trump for a variety of reasons.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#116

Post by makomk »

paxys wrote: post #63
droithomme wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forensic testing of DNA looks at 13 positions. 9 out of 13 is considered a match. When you match against a very large database using such a small number of polymorphisms, you get many matches. Detectives then take that list and look for people who lived sort of in the crime area. The matches who don't happen to have an alibi they can prove for a crime sometimes decades ago are then deemed "guilty". It's complete pseu…

It's not "pseudoscience" but literally how everything is investigated, DNA or not. There is always a process of elimination, strong vs weak evidence, probable cause, and many more factors. Audio/video surveillance, alibis, even eyewitness reports and just about everything else can be unreliable, incorrect or faked. That's why police gather all kinds of evidence and present it to a jury.

There was an article on HN a while back which demonstrated how presenting this kind of evidence works in practice. Police arrested a suspect on a DNA match, put on a dog and pony show for the jury about how absurdly unlikely it was for the DNA to match by chance, he was convicted and put away for a long time. What the jury didn't know - because the prosecutors managed to block the defence from telling them - is that the police had found half-a-dozen locals who were DNA matches and chosen the most unsavoury-sounding one to arrest. The tale they'd told the jury about the absurd odds of a DNA match if he wasn't the criminal was a bunch of nonsense, and the defence weren't allowed to clue them in about this. He's probably still in jail right now.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#117

Post by jayalpha »

duxup wrote: post #55
jayalpha wrote: post #31

From a behavioral perspective it is odd that a guy would do this and then stop doing it.

Is it? How many times would we know it happened if it was a thing?

Once the rubric is crossed it would happen again and again with increasing frequency.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#118

Post by jayalpha »

partiallypro wrote: post #68
jayalpha wrote: post #31

From a behavioral perspective it is odd that a guy would do this and then stop doing it.

The "serial killers never stop" is a myth. In fact it's pretty common. Life happens to even the worst people, and they are unable to carry out their previous hobbies... In this car being murder.

Source?

Once you cross the bridge for "your thing", it feels to good to stop. Be it murder, rape or sex with minors. This is actually one of the reasons why it is so important to catch a criminal. Not to punish for previous crimes but to prevent new ones.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#119

Post by [deleted] »

verisimilitudes wrote: post #2

I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect. This is one of many reasons to have your remains cremated, I suppose. It also avoids wasting space in a graveyard and whatnot. I'm beginning to seriously hear people discuss that it's perfectly okay to use DNA people submit in these ways and even that it would be okay for the government to collect trash and other things th…

[deleted]

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#120

Post by scarface74 »

mehrdadn wrote: post #64
mikeash wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? I see no problem with exhuming a corpse to solve a murder case as long as there’s probable cause and a warrant, which there was here.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? Not speaking for this case in particular, but regarding the general question, maybe it's something you don't want your loved ones to have to think about/go through?

Well. I’ve told my wife to get rid of my body as cheaply as possible if I die first. I don’t care what happens to my body.

I also don’t really like the idea of traditional funerals. Even though it’s too much to ask, I would much rather for people to have a cookout or something more joyous to celebrate my life than a funeral with everyone in suits.

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