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Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

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Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#41

Post by astazangasta »

greenflag wrote: post #5

Interesting discussion on twitter regarding the relatively small sample size (n=15) given the heterogeneity of the underlying condition - https://twitter.com/WiringTheBrain/status/112928482114080358...

Also, this technology is brand new. I mean, brand new. Single-cell RNA seq is only a few years old; single-nuclear is even newer. There are significant problems with analyzing this data, mostly related to the necessity to correct statistically between samples to remove batch effects before you can cross-compare. This is very, very hard and in general we are bad at it. I would say we can't really do it yet, and so experiments purporting to show differences between patients are likely to be the result of statistical artifacts, and not actual biological differences.

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#42

Post by astazangasta »

mar77i wrote: post #26
greenflag wrote: post #5

Interesting discussion on twitter regarding the relatively small sample size (n=15) given the heterogeneity of the underlying condition - https://twitter.com/WiringTheBrain/status/112928482114080358...

Finding an indicative difference in a tiny, yet random sample appears to have accomplished more than the guy yelling "small sample size" - and, which I find ironic - "waste!" here. They managed to add a tiny bit of contrast to a picture that's totally blank, and provide 15 pixels of data, please explain how that's supposed to be worthless? By the same logic, if I manage to cure an extremely rare type of cancer under…

Because you can easily find "a tiny bit of contrast" by comparing any two things; there will always be differences. this doesn't demonstrate that it isn't just noise and this difference is biologically and clinically meaningful.

Also, "the yelling" is called peer review. It's the entire basis of science.

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#43

Post by spraak »

Dr Exley of Keele University has been studying the role of aluminum in autism.

> Levels of mercury, lead, and aluminum in the hair of autistic children are higher than controls. Environmental exposure to these toxic heavy metals, at key times in development, may play a causal role in autism.

"Assessment of Hair Aluminum, Lead, and Mercury in a Sample of Autistic Egyptian Children: Environmental Risk Factors of Heavy Metals in Autism"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609793/

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#44

Post by spraak »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #17
spraak wrote: post #13

[flagged]

Deliberate pseudoscience link. Mods, please remove this.

It's a review of this paper [1]. Why do you consider it pseudoscience?

[1] "Assessment of Hair Aluminum, Lead, and Mercury in a Sample of Autistic Egyptian Children: Environmental Risk Factors of Heavy Metals in Autism"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609793/

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#45

Post by spraak »

nsnick wrote: post #15
spraak wrote: post #13

[flagged]

I don't think vaccinepapers.org is a reliable source.

It's a review of this paper [1].

[1] "Assessment of Hair Aluminum, Lead, and Mercury in a Sample of Autistic Egyptian Children: Environmental Risk Factors of Heavy Metals in Autism"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609793/

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#46

Post by freeflight »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #16
umvi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an HN thread the other day about how some (many?) autistic people don't think there is anything wrong with them and that they wouldn't "cure" themselves even if there were a "cure" because from their point of view there is nothing to cure and they are happy the way they are.

That's always puzzled me. It's certainly an individual's right to decline treatment for any medical condition, and to some extent I can understand why someone with autism might choose to do so, but that doesn't make it any less of a medical condition.

It's still their medical condition and as long as it doesn't manifest itself in ways affecting other people it should be up to each individual how to deal with their medical conditions and not have treatment forced on them.

Because forced treatments rarely work for anything as patient compliance is a massive factor for actual treatment success.

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#47

Post by morpheuskafka »

spraak wrote: post #44
morpheuskafka wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliberate pseudoscience link. Mods, please remove this.

It's a review of this paper [1]. Why do you consider it pseudoscience? [1] "Assessment of Hair Aluminum, Lead, and Mercury in a Sample of Autistic Egyptian Children: Environmental Risk Factors of Heavy Metals in Autism" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609793/

As is stated on their homepage[1], vaccinepapers.org takes the position that no currently marketed vaccine is acceptably safe for use because of long-debunked concerns over aluminum adjuvants causing autism.

[1] http://vaccinepapers.org/about/

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#48

Post by spraak »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #47
spraak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a review of this paper [1]. Why do you consider it pseudoscience? [1] "Assessment of Hair Aluminum, Lead, and Mercury in a Sample of Autistic Egyptian Children: Environmental Risk Factors of Heavy Metals in Autism" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609793/

As is stated on their homepage[1], vaccinepapers.org takes the position that no currently marketed vaccine is acceptably safe for use because of long-debunked concerns over aluminum adjuvants causing autism. [1] http://vaccinepapers.org/about/

I asked you about the paper specifically - why do you consider it pseudoscience? And long-debunked? There is really recent research about the dangers of aluminum as an adjuvant. What safety studies of aluminum as an adjuvant are you aware of? I haven't found any really.

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#49

Post by RhodesianHunter »

lal wrote: post #31
mar77i wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding an indicative difference in a tiny, yet random sample appears to have accomplished more than the guy yelling "small sample size" - and, which I find ironic - "waste!" here. They managed to add a tiny bit of contrast to a picture that's totally blank, and provide 15 pixels of data, please explain how that's supposed to be worthless? By the same logic, if I manage to cure an extremely rare type of cancer under…

It hasn't been established whether this has "accomplished" anything at all or if it's a false positive. That's what's being discussed in the Twitter thread.

It has opened an avenue for future research that has better than "monkeys throwing darts" odds, which is an accomplishment.

Re: Autism research on single neurons suggests signaling problems in brain circuits

#50

Post by checkyoursudo »

dazfuller wrote: post #2

Since when was autism classified as a disease?

I don't know whether autism should be considered a disease or something else, but having a disease doesn't make a person bad or less valuable.

How about we work on understanding and acknowledging that having a disease or mental illness or physical disfigurement or disability is ok, no matter what it is?

Maybe I am reading too much into this question. I am sorry if I am. It's a pretty sore subject for me. I'm not trying to offend anyone.

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