Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 108 posts

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#71

Post by ajcodez »

mabbo wrote: post #9

> Sidewalk Labs, a sister company to Google, had acquired disused land in Toronto, Canada for this bold urban experiment "Disused land" is a bit disingenuous. Toronto real estate prices are very high right now and this is waterfront property. It's former industrial land we're hoping to revitalize. As far as I can tell, Google isn't doing us a favor here. They're just another developer trying to make a bunch of money…

> And probably by a developer making money by cutting every corner in the build.

Well at least Concord didn’t get it. You can remove surveillance but it’s hard to undo a bunch of ugly condo towers.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#72

Post by Apocryphon »

martincmartin wrote: post #67

It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry out nor more doubtful of success nor more dangerous to handle than to initiate a new order of things; for the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order; this lukewarmness arising partly from the incredulity of mankind who does not truly believe in anything…

There is really very little of Machiavelli's one can accept or use in the contemporary world. - Henry Kissinger

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#73

Post by reaperducer »

notatoad wrote: post #15
njepa wrote: post #2

It looks like every (mostly useless) waterfront, science city or business park I have ever been to. Is there something new here, or is it like with many things these days that people's perception have diverged from reality?

the most innovative thing i've seen talked about is an a hidden utility corridor running to all the buildings for trash pickup. Which can't actually be an original idea, can it?

Chicago used to do it.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#74

Post by AzzieElbab »

breitling wrote: post #70
Element_ wrote: post #69

Aside from the privacy concerns, condos in this area are currently selling for $1000+/sqft. All renderings I have viewed from Google's proposal show some assortment of low rise buildings. You will need to be a multimillionaire to live in a low rise style building if the units are sold at market rates. That type of development doesn't represent the interest of the majority of the citizens (the avg salary in the city i…

Absolutely. One of the reasons the real estate prices are so detached from local salaries is that there is a lot of suspected money laundering and Chinese speculators buying up properties and leaving them empty.

How is this Alphabet's fault?

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#75

Post by scarejunba »

sunir wrote: post #44
scarejunba wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Real time additional self-driving buses responding to demand spikes. * Rubbish bins full? The city knows and sends help. * Demand pricing parking in a region I can think of a dozen ideas in seconds.

None of them are happening. What is happening is a vague statement that left a void where futurists like yourself have filled in with hype fueled imaginings of their own. The basic economics deny all 3 of your suggestions. The TTC doesn’t have smart buses. Garbage collection is regulated through citywide contracts to private collectors who are not going to waste their own margin on off schedule collection. Same with…

It's about solving some of the problems that block those things from happening. It doesn't even matter that we aren't ready to roll-out yet. It's whether you can enable informed policy.

The basic economics will change in time and there's no reason to wait for the planets to align to do some things. That's how you win. When the time is ripe, you've already solved the other problems.

This is the Newton. The iPad will come.

Honestly, I've had fewer greater compliments than "hype-filled futurist". Our fevered dreams will one day be reality.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#76

Post by AzzieElbab »

gasbikesracecar wrote: post #62
sonnyblarney wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Your point on source of population growth is not true. Toronto knows how many people come there as a function of overall migration and is a very active participant in migration policy. Moving 100K people / year into Toronto is part of the plan . On a national level, we plan for this, knowing very well how many are going to Toronto. 2) Toronto does not grow 'because it's a great city'. It's only 'great' relative to…

Great post other than your comment about Michelin star restaurants. To the best of my knowledge Michelin only reviews selected cities and Toronto isn't on that list (perhaps for a reason). So even the best restaurants there are ineligible until Michelin wants to include the city / area.

How about instead of Michelin stars you compare Chicago Tribune vs all of Toronto's newspapers combined? Or Chicago's art museums vs ROMA?

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#77

Post by AzzieElbab »

wendyshu wrote: post #32

Needless to say, Sidewalk Labs has not angered "Toronto", it has angered activists who don't live in the neighborhood and never will but apparently have veto power over what goes on there.

Yeah. Toronto waterfront project dates back to city's bid for 2008 olimpics. As far as I can tell, all that city managed to build is a small university campus

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#78

Post by sunir »

tomcam wrote: post #66
Fricken wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's plan really isn't that crazy. If all the weird things they want to do didn't work out, you'd be left with a fairly conventional neighbourhood in keeping with progressive low-car urban design principles. It's not like Google has carte blanche to do whatever they want, they've been in ongoing consultation with city planners from the start.

Can you point me to what Google’s plan is? Can’t find much concrete.

They are presenting at Collision this week. We will find out.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#79

Post by baudehlo »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #74
breitling wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. One of the reasons the real estate prices are so detached from local salaries is that there is a lot of suspected money laundering and Chinese speculators buying up properties and leaving them empty.

How is this Alphabet's fault?

It’s not, but Google/A came in with great fanfare and seemed to get more leeway than other constructions do due to their name and their sci fi promises.

But it’s important for people outside of Toronto to understand that this isn’t what most people would call “downtown” either. It’s in one of the least accessible parts of the city, that for that reason has historically only been used by industry. Transit is improving there, but it’s not somewhere I’d want to live. So maybe low rise is all that can be sold there? I don’t know but there are other high rises going up now in that area. How are their sales?

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#80

Post by notatoad »

underdown wrote: post #22
notatoad wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the most innovative thing i've seen talked about is an a hidden utility corridor running to all the buildings for trash pickup. Which can't actually be an original idea, can it?

In a sense isn't that what every alleyway in the world is?

only in the sense that ignores all the ways it's different to an alley.
Post reply on HN