Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto • Hacker News Board

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#61

Post by qazwse_ » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #55

mabbo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then why is Toronto very aggressively bringing in 100K people per year into the city Toronto doesn't choose who comes here. It's not stealing people from around the world and forcing them to come, nor does it try to stop anyone from migrating. Toronto is just a great city and the world wants to live here. We're the most multicultural city on the planet for that reason. We're something special, and I live here in pa…

1) Your point on source of population growth is not true. Toronto knows how many people come there as a function of overall migration and is a very active participant in migration policy. Moving 100K people / year into Toronto is part of the plan . On a national level, we plan for this, knowing very well how many are going to Toronto. 2) Toronto does not grow 'because it's a great city'. It's only 'great' relative to…

> To given an example - Toronto doesn't even have a single Michelin starred restaurant. Not one. Ever. Chicago has about 20. Seoul has about 20. Not that Chicago and Seoul are 'better overall' - but they have enough identity, character, soul, character, productivity (i.e. money) to do notable things.

For anyone curious, this is because Michelin doesn't publish a restaurant guide for Canada. No restaurant in Canada has a Michelin star.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#62

Post by gasbikesracecar » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:49 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #55

mabbo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then why is Toronto very aggressively bringing in 100K people per year into the city Toronto doesn't choose who comes here. It's not stealing people from around the world and forcing them to come, nor does it try to stop anyone from migrating. Toronto is just a great city and the world wants to live here. We're the most multicultural city on the planet for that reason. We're something special, and I live here in pa…

1) Your point on source of population growth is not true. Toronto knows how many people come there as a function of overall migration and is a very active participant in migration policy. Moving 100K people / year into Toronto is part of the plan . On a national level, we plan for this, knowing very well how many are going to Toronto. 2) Toronto does not grow 'because it's a great city'. It's only 'great' relative to…

Great post other than your comment about Michelin star restaurants. To the best of my knowledge Michelin only reviews selected cities and Toronto isn't on that list (perhaps for a reason). So even the best restaurants there are ineligible until Michelin wants to include the city / area.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#63

Post by metildaa » Sat, May 18, 2019, 8:17 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #51

Fricken wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A study was done and they determined the main reason Nimbys are Nimbys is because they don't like the idea of developers making money by building things near them: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/09/what-if-nimbys-hate-d...

That's really fascinating. I'm not bothered by developers making money. They're a very important part of the housing system. But what does bother me is when you have buildings poorly constructed, made to be cheap to build but expensive to maintain. Most of the condos along the waterfront meet that criteria. Even my own building, which on the whole is pretty well built, has to undergo a huge renovation to each unit be…

Copper pipe isn't a be all, end all, if anything it can be more damage prone than plastic pipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD5lMITzx_Y

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#64

Post by flycaliguy » Sat, May 18, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

qazwse_ wrote: post #61

sonnyblarney wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Your point on source of population growth is not true. Toronto knows how many people come there as a function of overall migration and is a very active participant in migration policy. Moving 100K people / year into Toronto is part of the plan . On a national level, we plan for this, knowing very well how many are going to Toronto. 2) Toronto does not grow 'because it's a great city'. It's only 'great' relative to…

> To given an example - Toronto doesn't even have a single Michelin starred restaurant. Not one. Ever. Chicago has about 20. Seoul has about 20. Not that Chicago and Seoul are 'better overall' - but they have enough identity, character, soul, character, productivity (i.e. money) to do notable things. For anyone curious, this is because Michelin doesn't publish a restaurant guide for Canada. No restaurant in Canada ha…

I'll just add that eating out in Toronto is amazing and a never ending adventure.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#65

Post by PorterDuff » Sat, May 18, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #24

PorterDuff wrote: post #3

I think that Google should build company housing at their main facilities, give their people somewhere to live, and watch them 24/7 like lab rats. You could accomplish an interesting experiment plus deal with the problem of giving new hires a place to live.

That works if the only places you visit are work and home.

An Android phone should fix that problem.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#66

Post by tomcam » Sat, May 18, 2019, 8:54 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #42

sunir wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely bad argument. All neighbourhoods, houses, even cottage docks are controlled through planning in Ontario. Sensible people recognize that the city will continue to exist hundreds of years into the future. We do not let any crazy person build whatever comes into their minds because failures end up being a problem for neighbours and the government ultimately to fix, which means other taxpayers. If we…

Google's plan really isn't that crazy. If all the weird things they want to do didn't work out, you'd be left with a fairly conventional neighbourhood in keeping with progressive low-car urban design principles. It's not like Google has carte blanche to do whatever they want, they've been in ongoing consultation with city planners from the start.

Can you point me to what Google’s plan is? Can’t find much concrete.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#67

Post by martincmartin » Sat, May 18, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry out nor more doubtful of success nor more dangerous to handle than to initiate a new order of things; for the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order; this lukewarmness arising partly from the incredulity of mankind who does not truly believe in anything new until they actually have experience of it.

-- Nicolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#68

Post by tedivm » Sat, May 18, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #51

Fricken wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A study was done and they determined the main reason Nimbys are Nimbys is because they don't like the idea of developers making money by building things near them: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/09/what-if-nimbys-hate-d...

That's really fascinating. I'm not bothered by developers making money. They're a very important part of the housing system. But what does bother me is when you have buildings poorly constructed, made to be cheap to build but expensive to maintain. Most of the condos along the waterfront meet that criteria. Even my own building, which on the whole is pretty well built, has to undergo a huge renovation to each unit be…

PVC is extremely common for plumbing and should not, by it self, cause any issues. Copper pipes are very expensive and leak copper into the water, which can have some negative affects on health. The middle school I went to actually had to bring in bottled water because the copper quantity in the water was too high. Copper pipes are also much louder.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#69

Post by Element_ » Sat, May 18, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

Aside from the privacy concerns, condos in this area are currently selling for $1000+/sqft. All renderings I have viewed from Google's proposal show some assortment of low rise buildings. You will need to be a multimillionaire to live in a low rise style building if the units are sold at market rates. That type of development doesn't represent the interest of the majority of the citizens (the avg salary in the city is ~45k USD). The city should only be approving 100+ story structures in the downtown core until there is enough supply to meet demand and bring RE prices down to reflect local salaries.

Re: Opposition to Sidewalk Labs in Toronto

#70

Post by breitling » Sat, May 18, 2019, 9:29 PM UTC

Element_ wrote: post #69

Aside from the privacy concerns, condos in this area are currently selling for $1000+/sqft. All renderings I have viewed from Google's proposal show some assortment of low rise buildings. You will need to be a multimillionaire to live in a low rise style building if the units are sold at market rates. That type of development doesn't represent the interest of the majority of the citizens (the avg salary in the city i…

Absolutely. One of the reasons the real estate prices are so detached from local salaries is that there is a lot of suspected money laundering and Chinese speculators buying up properties and leaving them empty.