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Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

theguardian.com

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Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#31

Post by netsharc »

SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

I remember reading (yeah, not much of a citation, I know...) that recycling was invented so people wouldn't feel so bad about disposable packaging.

Considering recycling can mean shipping trash to a poor country, it's not the ultimate environment rescuer. (Doesn't mean we should stop doing it, obviously)

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#32

Post by redwall_hp »

devoply wrote: post #14
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

Glass bottles weigh about 10 times more than plastic bottles. Enjoy all the extra CO2 from shipping.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#33

Post by Proven »

netsharc wrote: post #31
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

I remember reading (yeah, not much of a citation, I know...) that recycling was invented so people wouldn't feel so bad about disposable packaging. Considering recycling can mean shipping trash to a poor country, it's not the ultimate environment rescuer. (Doesn't mean we should stop doing it, obviously)

He just reminded that it doesn’t make sense to blame person A for what person B does with the stuff they bought from person A, and you’re already at it again.

Should Coca Cola be responsible for the poor country that imports that trash?

Why do they import it if they don’t plan to recycle it and make profit from it that way? Somebody imports it and dumps it without recycling because they live in a corrupt hellhole of a country, that’s why. Don’t attempt to blame Coca Cola for the shitty outcomes of democracy in some tier 3 country.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#34

Post by neverartful »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #30
m463 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bottle deposit is an interesting optimization. That said, I remember being in mexico and when you buy a coke "to go", they don't want to bottle to walk away. So they helpfully pour it in a plastic bag, stick a straw in it and seal the plastic bag to the straw with a rubber band.

So now instead of a single bottle, you have a plastic bag, a straw, and a rubber band as litter all the while destroying any guarantees of not getting food borne illnesses.

I'm old enough to clearly remember when Coca Cola was distributed in glass bottles. There was no plastic of any kind, except for maybe a gasket inside the metal cap. Individual serving size bottles had bottle caps and larger size had metal screw caps with metal safety-seal thingies that broke off when you opened it for the first time. All of them had deposits that were refunded when you turn them in.

I don't know about the economics or logistical feasibility of returning to the same setup, but to suggest it's not possible (while still ensuring product safety) is inaccurate.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#35

Post by technofiend »

m463 wrote: post #27
devoply wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

I like aluminum better. Glass bottles are not perfect. They are lots heavier, which leads to transportation pollution. They also break and hurt people. As to plastics - You are correct, they do not recycle and when you try to do it, even with a very low ratio of recycled to new plastics you end up with crappy weak plastic - think laundry baskets that have handles that break easily. i think we should just learn to bur…

I'm down for completely banning single use plastics: everything from shopping bags to clamshell packaging can go tomorrow IMHO. Same with styrofoam, frankly.

Having said that glass bottles were a nightmare when I was a kid because of littering assholes who would toss them anywhere. Littering is less of an issue these days but I think going back to glass would need to both reward recycling and shame litter bugs. Walking home from the local swimming hole after slicing the bottom of your foot open is no fun.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#36

Post by neverartful »

redwall_hp wrote: post #32
devoply wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

Glass bottles weigh about 10 times more than plastic bottles. Enjoy all the extra CO2 from shipping.

What extra CO2 from shipping? When Coca Cola was distributed in glass bottles there were local (or regional) bottling centers. The Coca Cola syrup was distributed to these bottling centers and they're the ones that filled bottles for local/regional distribution. I don't recall any problems with CO2.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#37

Post by michaelmrose »

redwall_hp wrote: post #32
devoply wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

Glass bottles weigh about 10 times more than plastic bottles. Enjoy all the extra CO2 from shipping.

The liquid weighs more than either.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#38

Post by jerrysievert »

siedes wrote: post #23
m3nu wrote: post #16

Just spent 2 weeks on Sabah, Borneo. Even the very remote beaches hours away from large human settlements are littered with plastic bottles and grocery bags. While diving you often see bags floating around. Both, on the surface and below. Ironically even the island hopping boat carried a tray of bottled water for anyone to take. Not sure what % of bottles gets left behind at the end of the day. Maybe a small deposit…

A small deposit is no incentive. Now if it were a significant amount like $.50-$1.00 per bottle you recycle, then you'd have people literally racing to get those bottles. Then just increase the price on the drinks itself by a bit to make up for that, which is also a disincentive to discourage a number of people from buying them in the first place.

oregon has 90% redemption rate[1] at 10 cents per bottle, so there is obviously some incentive.

1. https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-bottle-deposit-redem...

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#39

Post by [deleted] »

maxxxxx wrote: post #10
mooneater wrote: post #3

Even with zero packaging, their product is addictive poison. Buffett has spoken proudly of how, normally the human body would not be able to drink that much sugar without getting immediately sick, but the coke formula overcomes that sugar overload response. Disgusting.

That’s actually something I have been thinking about. How do they get so much sugar into a drink? You could never produce something drinkable with this amount of sugar.

[deleted]

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#40

Post by serf »

AYBABTME wrote: post #12
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

If you develop an app, and everybody using your app always ends up deleting their data by clicking on the wrong button, and then people complain that your app loses data... ...in the end, the users are wrong in the moment, but the real problem is that your app allows a behavior that has negative outcomes, and the proper fix isn't to educate people, but to make it impossible for people to click that delete button so e…

>in the end, the users are wrong in the moment, but the real problem is that your app allows a behavior that has negative outcomes, and the proper fix isn't to educate people, but to make it impossible for people to click that delete button so easily, or maybe make the deletion recoverable.

this is the kind of thinking that kills apps for power-users, and leads to dark patterns.

You're not wrong, but I don't really like to think about how those kind of practices could be applied to social problems and government.

"We don't want X people doing Y, so let's subtly make it harder for X people to continue doing Y, without wholeheartedly admitting our intent." seems like a really slippery slope.

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