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Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

theguardian.com

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Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#21

Post by hombre_fatal »

devoply wrote: post #14
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

Any Lidl near me in Prague in 2009 would take glass bottles and give you a cash deposit back.

The USA will probably get something like that when it catches up in 100 years.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#22

Post by liamkinne »

AYBABTME wrote: post #12
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

If you develop an app, and everybody using your app always ends up deleting their data by clicking on the wrong button, and then people complain that your app loses data... ...in the end, the users are wrong in the moment, but the real problem is that your app allows a behavior that has negative outcomes, and the proper fix isn't to educate people, but to make it impossible for people to click that delete button so e…

Your design example doesn't apply because the end user in this case isn't directly effected by their negligence.

There is clear evidence that littering is societal. See how clean Japanese cities are despite almost everything being wrapped in plastic.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#23

Post by siedes »

m3nu wrote: post #16

Just spent 2 weeks on Sabah, Borneo. Even the very remote beaches hours away from large human settlements are littered with plastic bottles and grocery bags. While diving you often see bags floating around. Both, on the surface and below. Ironically even the island hopping boat carried a tray of bottled water for anyone to take. Not sure what % of bottles gets left behind at the end of the day. Maybe a small deposit…

A small deposit is no incentive. Now if it were a significant amount like $.50-$1.00 per bottle you recycle, then you'd have people literally racing to get those bottles. Then just increase the price on the drinks itself by a bit to make up for that, which is also a disincentive to discourage a number of people from buying them in the first place.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#24

Post by m463 »

AYBABTME wrote: post #12
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

If you develop an app, and everybody using your app always ends up deleting their data by clicking on the wrong button, and then people complain that your app loses data... ...in the end, the users are wrong in the moment, but the real problem is that your app allows a behavior that has negative outcomes, and the proper fix isn't to educate people, but to make it impossible for people to click that delete button so e…

I think the bottle deposit is an interesting optimization.

That said, I remember being in mexico and when you buy a coke "to go", they don't want to bottle to walk away. So they helpfully pour it in a plastic bag, stick a straw in it and seal the plastic bag to the straw with a rubber band.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#25

Post by amatecha »

m3nu wrote: post #16

Just spent 2 weeks on Sabah, Borneo. Even the very remote beaches hours away from large human settlements are littered with plastic bottles and grocery bags. While diving you often see bags floating around. Both, on the surface and below. Ironically even the island hopping boat carried a tray of bottled water for anyone to take. Not sure what % of bottles gets left behind at the end of the day. Maybe a small deposit…

That already exists in many places! Here in BC there's regulation around recyclables and minimum deposit pricing: http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/free...

One interesting result of this program is you may find people scrounging around neighbourhoods and trash cans to collect the recyclables so they can collect the deposit on them :)

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#26

Post by codingdave »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #21
devoply wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

Any Lidl near me in Prague in 2009 would take glass bottles and give you a cash deposit back. The USA will probably get something like that when it catches up in 100 years.

We're at about 20% in the USA with such programs: http://www.ncsl.org/research/environment-and-natural-resourc...

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#27

Post by m463 »

devoply wrote: post #14
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

I like aluminum better.

Glass bottles are not perfect. They are lots heavier, which leads to transportation pollution. They also break and hurt people.

As to plastics - You are correct, they do not recycle and when you try to do it, even with a very low ratio of recycled to new plastics you end up with crappy weak plastic - think laundry baskets that have handles that break easily.

i think we should just learn to burn plastics - efficiently and cleanly.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#28

Post by [deleted] »

AYBABTME wrote: post #12
SteveGerencser wrote: post #8

The survey found that 10 companies were responsible for more than half of the identifiably branded rubbish found on the UK’s beaches." But are they? Isn't this shifting the blame from the end user that improperly disposes of their trash to the company? Sure, they could do more to reduce packaging issues, but in the end, it is the consumer that is tossing these things out rather than recycling them.

If you develop an app, and everybody using your app always ends up deleting their data by clicking on the wrong button, and then people complain that your app loses data... ...in the end, the users are wrong in the moment, but the real problem is that your app allows a behavior that has negative outcomes, and the proper fix isn't to educate people, but to make it impossible for people to click that delete button so e…

[deleted]

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#29

Post by SteveGerencser »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #21
devoply wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban plastic bottles. Make them use glass bottles in a closed cycle where the bottles are constantly cycled and then turned into something else when they can't be cycled... or use aluminum which is recyclable. And let's call out recycling for the sham that it is. Recycling is a lie for plastics, plastics can not be economically recycled. They must be banned and the polluters made to internalize the externality.

Any Lidl near me in Prague in 2009 would take glass bottles and give you a cash deposit back. The USA will probably get something like that when it catches up in 100 years.

We had it. I grew up returning glass bottles and worked at a bottling company in the late 80s doing nothing but sorting glass bottles by brand and type so that they could be washed, sanitized, filled and sent right back out. The job sucked.

This was also about the time we started getting 2 liter plastic bottles.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#30

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

m463 wrote: post #24
AYBABTME wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you develop an app, and everybody using your app always ends up deleting their data by clicking on the wrong button, and then people complain that your app loses data... ...in the end, the users are wrong in the moment, but the real problem is that your app allows a behavior that has negative outcomes, and the proper fix isn't to educate people, but to make it impossible for people to click that delete button so e…

I think the bottle deposit is an interesting optimization. That said, I remember being in mexico and when you buy a coke "to go", they don't want to bottle to walk away. So they helpfully pour it in a plastic bag, stick a straw in it and seal the plastic bag to the straw with a rubber band.

So now instead of a single bottle, you have a plastic bag, a straw, and a rubber band as litter all the while destroying any guarantees of not getting food borne illnesses.
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