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Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

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Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#131

Post by Nasrudith »

londons_explore wrote: post #15
zaphirplane wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South America is not a US vassals. Some of the tiny countries that were invaded have strong dependency on the US. But Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Mexico, Venezuela I struggle to believe they are. Where ever did you get that idea from

Look at places holding US debt to identify vasal States. The debt is what defends the state. A coup or military takeover and that debt won't get repaid, so there is financial incentives for the US to intervene.

That is so not why treasury bonds are bought and the opposite of how they work. They are bought to be stable and value stores and some exchange rate hedging. It acknowledges supremacy sure in that they think it would be extraordinarily less likely to collapse.

They pay the money upfront for them and if the regieme change was illegitimate enough to freeze the bond it would be "free money" until a legitimate claimant comes forward. Like a neighboring city's bank refusing to turn over money from the account of Gotham after joker took over the city. That is the only securing function of it - meaning others lose it if they steal it.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#132

Post by coldtea »

barry-cotter wrote: post #61
coldtea wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As Milton Friedman has pointed out, the loser of protectionist policies are the countries that practice them. Milton Friedman says that because he's a policy advisor of countries that benefit from others dropping their protectionist policies. At a certain state of development (and when you are not yet top dog to dictate what "free" trade means to other countries), you need some well balanced protectionist policies.…

> Milton Friedman says that because he's a policy advisor of countries that benefit from others dropping their protectionist policies. Friedman has been called many things but inconsistent or unprincipled were not among them. He advocated for free trade for the same reasons free trade is the overwhelming consensus of economists; it works and they can explain why whether you want the verbal or mathematical explanation…

>Friedman has been called many things but inconsistent or unprincipled [are] not among them.

Actually in good-old Europe, "unprincipled" is upon Friedman's more common monickers.

Not that America is that behind:

"It must be said that there were some serious questions about his [Friedman's] intellectual honesty when he was speaking to the mass public." (Paul Krugman)

Or how about:

http://professorfekete.com/articles/AEFWhereFriedmanWentWron...

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#133

Post by coldtea »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #129
stallmanite wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure re-education camp is a step up from drone strike. Depends on your priorities I suppose.

If you prefer death to a reeducation camp, that choice is likely available to you. The dead have no choice.

Why choose when you can have both? From the native american's re-education camps, to off-system prisons (black sites and the like).

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#134

Post by stevefan1999 »

nailer wrote: post #53

As someone who watches the very unusual moderation of China-critical comments on HN (+3 one moment, -3 a few hours later) I'm wary of a political piece praising China hitting #1 on HN. I also don't see the value of Singapore - which is openly anti democratic ( https://www.huffpost.com/entry/singapore-challenges-democrac... ) providing advice here - as the same concerns about authoritarian corruption that apply to Chi…

meh, it's probably because white dudes in HN doesn't like to have an Asian, especially Chinese to steal their job opportunities, and so they like to see bashes around China because it doesn't guarantee benefits to them.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#135

Post by nullwasamistake »

coldtea wrote: post #123
mistermann wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you raise a lot of valid points, the US is hardly innocent on a historic global basis. That being said, what's your take on China's behavior specifically, do you believe they are acting in a "fair" manner? Do you believe the advantages they enjoy are all justified? (Note: for the sake of this argument only, karmic payback for US historic behavior is not considered a valid justification.) EDIT: I'm curious why…

> That being said, what's your take on China's behavior specifically, do you believe they are acting in a "fair" manner? Regarding trade: I think China (and any country) should have absolute say in how they do business, and who they want to do business with, who to allow in their internal market, etc. And of course other countries should be free to reciprocate. That would be actually free trade in my book: with any n…

Free trade is like free markets. I can buy shares of nearly any public company in the world (notably, not including China). I can move my stuff for free (besides shipping cost) to many countries. That is free trade and free markets.

China has neither. Free is free as in no restriction, not free to do whatever you want.

Free to do whatever will make global trade more difficult for everyone as all countries will have tariffs, as it was historically.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#136

Post by ptah »

nailer wrote: post #99
ptah wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is up to each nation to choose it's form of government. it is not one size fits all

Saying the people of China have 'chosen not to choose' is bizarre and disingenuous - you are twisting the notion of freedom to imply Chinese people have chosen not to be free. The Chinese people have never in recent memory chosen the Chinese communist party to represent them exclusively.

as opposed to the illusion of choice provided in de facto two party "democracies"?

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#137

Post by Riverheart »

thefounder wrote: post #65
wallace_f wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does this, but I'm glad it's a country where we value being able to openly criticize our government for it. We have an independent judiciary, democratic institutions--what are structural Separations of Powers which is the most important structure of a civilization consistent with liberty. China doesn't have that. Saying the US also cheats the rules, too, is important, but shouldn't be confused with the reality…

Yeah, sure and how is that Huawei ended up being banned without due process? Europeans are not sparred either using the Justice Department or a straight out tariff(i.e steel, cars etc) https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ax5hwm/economic_war...

Nobody said it was a perfect system. It can be abused, especially when legal precedents haven't been set, but there are also means to challenge the legitimacy of such decisions.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#138

Post by ptah »

nailer wrote: post #99
ptah wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is up to each nation to choose it's form of government. it is not one size fits all

Saying the people of China have 'chosen not to choose' is bizarre and disingenuous - you are twisting the notion of freedom to imply Chinese people have chosen not to be free. The Chinese people have never in recent memory chosen the Chinese communist party to represent them exclusively.

[flagged]

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#139

Post by barry-cotter »

coldtea wrote: post #132
barry-cotter wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Milton Friedman says that because he's a policy advisor of countries that benefit from others dropping their protectionist policies. Friedman has been called many things but inconsistent or unprincipled were not among them. He advocated for free trade for the same reasons free trade is the overwhelming consensus of economists; it works and they can explain why whether you want the verbal or mathematical explanation…

> Friedman has been called many things but inconsistent or unprincipled [are] not among them. Actually in good-old Europe, "unprincipled" is upon Friedman's more common monickers. Not that America is that behind: "It must be said that there were some serious questions about his [Friedman's] intellectual honesty when he was speaking to the mass public." (Paul Krugman) Or how about: http://professorfekete.com/articles/…

Ah, I overestimated humanity. I must say that for Krugman to question anyone’s intellectual honesty when speaking to the public is pretty rich.

Paul Krugman's Hypocrisy: Now The Deficit Matters

https://www.dailywire.com/news/12299/paul-krugman-how-ive-co...

Hypocrite Krugman: ‘Awful’ 2017 McCain Now ‘Genuine Hero’, Again Claims GOP ‘Authoritarian'

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/clay-waters/2018/11/13/...

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#140

Post by hombre_fatal »

msiyer wrote: post #122
wallace_f wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does this, but I'm glad it's a country where we value being able to openly criticize our government for it. We have an independent judiciary, democratic institutions--what are structural Separations of Powers which is the most important structure of a civilization consistent with liberty. China doesn't have that. Saying the US also cheats the rules, too, is important, but shouldn't be confused with the reality…

The government goes to war\implements policy 1. People criticize. The government continues war\policy 1. People continue criticizing. The government starts war\implements policy 2. People criticize. The government continues war\policy 1 and war\policy 2. People continue criticizing. ...

Forward slash (/) is punctuation in English. Back slash is not.
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