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Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

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Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#61
post #12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Milton Friedman has pointed out, the loser of protectionist policies are the countries that practice them. If China wants to subsidize its industries and sell Americans cheap goods then that is primarily an issue for the Chinese people, not for American consumers. Absorbing global manufacturing has made Americans the richest people with the highest purchasing power on the planet, has subjected American companies t…

> As Milton Friedman has pointed out, the loser of protectionist policies are the countries that practice them. Milton Friedman says that because he's a policy advisor of countries that benefit from others dropping their protectionist policies. At a certain state of development (and when you are not yet top dog to dictate what "free" trade means to other countries), you need some well balanced protectionist policies.…

> Milton Friedman says that because he's a policy advisor of countries that benefit from others dropping their protectionist policies.

Friedman has been called many things but inconsistent or unprincipled were not among them. He advocated for free trade for the same reasons free trade is the overwhelming consensus of economists; it works and they can explain why whether you want the verbal or mathematical explanation.

Well balanced protectionist polices may be worth it theoretically but all a nation is really doing that way is increasing the variance of their economic growth. It’s a gamble. It could be a costly failure that retards growth for decades before being dismantled as in Ireland, India and Argentina or it could work, as in South Korea or Japan. Note that protectionist policies are not necessary for export lead growth. Hong Kong did just fine with unilateral free trade.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like what many in the UK thought they could get with Brexit, and not the reality of Brexit.

One of the main leaders of the Leave campaign and someone who highly likely to be the next Prime Minister of the UK literally said: "My policy on cake is pro having it and pro eating it."

Who has cake and doesn’t eat it?

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the type of comment that really indicates an immensely ignorant oversimplified misunderstanding of the complexity of the Chinese political situation. China has overthrown harsh rulers many more times than the US has, even taking into account the latter's short and young history. The last time was in 1912, and very plausibly arguably 1949 too. (The Nationalists were pretty bad, objectively speaking.)

I wanted to reply, it said comment deleted, I reload the page, there it is again, 0 minutes ago. Nice one deleting your comment because it garnered downvotes, just to post the exact same comment again. "the complexity of the Chinese political situation" = "China has overthrown harsh rulers many more times than the US has" is itself a simplification. https://vimeo.com/44078865 So is this video, it's also a simplificat…

Yup, I'm not about to be censored by people downvoting my comments without explanation. I think the downvoting mechanic on HN is stupid.

Of course what I said is an oversimplification. It's meant to directly make you question your deep underlying assumptions, and your own oversimplifications. The government has a lot of power on paper both now and historically. Yet despite this, rebellions have still occurred regularly, and this core central power did not historically cause China to go and colonise other countries committing atrocities there. Perhaps something is missing from your own US-centric legalist analysis?

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#64
post #26

Lee Kuan Yew had some interesting and prescient insights about China in 1967: https://youtu.be/VexrmTacOAA

You should read his book: One Man's View of the World https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18297494-one-man-s-view-... It's very concise, written in fairly casual tone and in my opinion, spot on for the most part. One point he kept making throughout the book is Singapore will not stop working with a superpower because another superpower don't like it.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will check it out

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#65
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They undermine it every day they refuse to allow free trade. The US and others spent a lot of resources building the free trade system of the world... I.e. the kind of trade that they dictate and call "free", creating banana republics that cut them special deals, toppling governments when they don't like their decisions, using humanitarian and development funding (even from supposedly independent sources, like the…

The US does this, but I'm glad it's a country where we value being able to openly criticize our government for it. We have an independent judiciary, democratic institutions--what are structural Separations of Powers which is the most important structure of a civilization consistent with liberty. China doesn't have that. Saying the US also cheats the rules, too, is important, but shouldn't be confused with the reality…

Yeah, sure and how is that Huawei ended up being banned without due process? Europeans are not sparred either using the Justice Department or a straight out tariff(i.e steel, cars etc)

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ax5hwm/economic_war...

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#66
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at places holding US debt to identify vasal States. The debt is what defends the state. A coup or military takeover and that debt won't get repaid, so there is financial incentives for the US to intervene.

So, China is a U.S. vassal state?

Civilization games taught me that vassals, when powerful enough can break their vassalage and become free again.

Perhaps that's what is happening with China. It's no longer dependent on the US in the way it was and in time, will eclipse the US as the largest superpower.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#67
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But how does China 'assuming its rightful place' should look in practical terms? > Allowing East Asia to become China's vassal territory? Sure, in much the same way that it was in the past, and in much the same way that all of North and South America are vassals to the United States. It is not realistic for East and even Southeast Asian countries to care more about what the US thinks than what China thinks; I don't…

It's easy to understand if you agree that US hypocrisy is crucially protected by manufactured consent and propaganda. Most people fall in two categories, either a) not heard of Chomsky, or b) think he's wrong.

> Most people fall in two categories, either a) not heard of Chomsky, or b) think he's wrong.

On HN of all places I suspect that most people fall in a third category:

c) related to designing & parsing grammars

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does this, but I'm glad it's a country where we value being able to openly criticize our government for it. We have an independent judiciary, democratic institutions--what are structural Separations of Powers which is the most important structure of a civilization consistent with liberty. China doesn't have that. Saying the US also cheats the rules, too, is important, but shouldn't be confused with the reality…

Yeah, sure and how is that Huawei ended up being banned without due process? Europeans are not sparred either using the Justice Department or a straight out tariff(i.e steel, cars etc) https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ax5hwm/economic_war...

True. And every US company is by default basically banned from China unless they want to let you in.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#69
US should make policies that are good for its citizens, its factories and its companies, not Singapore.

Singapore can survive as a country with mostly trade, IP, high tech, low taxes, services. Singapore doesn’t even have power plants, all from Malaysia.

But despite the dreams of some people, a big country like US cannot just be a service economy like Singapore.... so while I disagree with Trump on many other issues, I cam’t really fault him here, and I hope next American democratic president will not soften its stance.

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