Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#71

Post by krapp » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:04 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #68

krapp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest that he is[0,1], going back to lawsuits over housing discrimination in the 1970s, to his comments about wanting more immigrants from Norway rather than "shithole countries" in Africa, and of course equivocating on Charlottesville. Granted, he hasn't burned a cross on the White House lawn, but it's difficult to look at his statements and the unprecedented (and well…

Charlottesville hoax has been debunked again and again, including by MSM outlets themselves. Read what he actually said: https://blog.dilbert.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-fun...

Ok fair enough. That still leaves the rest of the mountain of evidence. Is every quote and statement ever made by and about Trump also a hoax? Even the ones from prior to his presidency?

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#72

Post by __d » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:04 AM UTC

robertAngst wrote: post #16

Can anyone stop him? I don't want him to do this. I don't want these tariffs. Does this mean the Republican Party is compliant in this nonsense?

I think there are two different philosophies at work here.

In one, international trading has built a web of mutual dependencies between countries. When your economic well-being depends on another country, you're less likely to go to war with them. The more inter-dependencies exist, the less likely armed conflict becomes.

Countries outside the trading bloc are then suspect: they have nothing to lose in attacking. Attempts to bring outsiders into the bloc via trade agreements, development, loans, etc, are all really part of a defensive security strategy.

This is nothing new: rulers have been marrying their children to those of their enemies for the same reasons since forever.

The other point of view, which seems dominant within the current US administration, looks at the inter-dependencies of international trade purely as a liability.

When the US relies on China to provide it with lots of manufactured goods, that is seen mostly (or solely) as a risk for the US, not as a stabilizing link in a web of mutual dependency.

Which is not to say that China (for example) won't try to leverage those dependencies to improve its position, nor to say that the US shouldn't encourage more widespread dependencies so that there's resilience in the system to bad acting on the part of any single player.

The point being that detaching from the web of mutual dependency makes you both weaker (in that you can only rely on yourself), and more threatening (since you no longer have anything to lose by attacking).

The US, by virtue of its size, can probably most afford to be isolated, but it's not clear to me that it's a good long-term strategy.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#73

Post by toomanyrichies » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:04 AM UTC

waste_monk wrote: post #64

[flagged]

For those confused about the Winnie the Pooh reference (like I was):

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-china-blog-40627855

Once you see it, you can’t un-see it.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#74

Post by dajohnson89 » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:05 AM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #45

A little off topic: I think multiple countries should join together to co-sponsor security evaluation labs to check Cisco, Huawei, and all telecom companies. These labs should get access to hardware design, software, etc. This can be done in a way that mostly protects individual company’s intellectual property. I suspect that the top telecom tech companies would go along with this idea, to get vetted, if it would hel…

good idea but it sounds like a highly expensive affair

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#75

Post by e40 » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #12

petschge wrote: post #4

The fear mongering against Huawei becomes really interesting when you look at all the "sorry, we forgot about that unintentional access possibility" incidents in Cisco gear that might either be back doors or lousy QA leading to security problems.

I don't really see the fear mongering or problem here. This executive order would forbid the government from purchasing and installing Telecom/Networking equipment that would be considered to have a higher than acceptable risk. Given that China isn't exactly the most friendly nation to the US, and given Huawei is by nature, an extension of the Chinese Government, it's not unreasonable to assume China might at some po…

Software is now sufficiently complicated that it isn't really possible to know the motives of the people creating it. When the people are controlled by governments like China, fear of those motives is reasonable.

Note also that I don't trust the motives of Cisco, either, except to try to maximize their bottom line. (I'm not really worried about rouge employees at Cisco.) I think in service of said bottom line, Cisco and other companies will do almost anything. I'm not say all will do anything, just that some will, and when some will, there is a threat from them, too. Just like Cisco not giving a crap about security when it conflicts with them making more money.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#76

Post by m0zg » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #71

m0zg wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charlottesville hoax has been debunked again and again, including by MSM outlets themselves. Read what he actually said: https://blog.dilbert.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-fun...

Ok fair enough. That still leaves the rest of the mountain of evidence. Is every quote and statement ever made by and about Trump also a hoax? Even the ones from prior to his presidency?

Prior to his presidency here's how things were "racism" wise: https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+with+sharpton&newwindo.... Dude even had a black girflriend for a couple of years: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/us/politics/trump-blacks-...

As to "mountains of evidence", up until you've read the article I linked, you thought there was "mountain of evidence" about Charlottesville, too. Heck, you probably still think that, this particular bit of fake news has been drilled into everyone's skulls relentlessly for over a year.

What makes you think that other "evidence" is not of the same quality?

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#77

Post by smadurange » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

quotz wrote: post #61

cup wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And CIA seeded companies aren't?

USA is not a communist country, big difference. With political administration changes, also do foreign policy opinions change, along with whatever CIA has to do with foreign sovereignties. One USA regime pardons Manning, another jails him/her. One USA regime bombs Syria, another doesnt. Also, CIA seeded companies are just a few and none of the big ones. Palantir and Oculus are their biggest, not sure Oculus can spy o…

So your entire argument that when US does it is okay is based on

1. US administration may change and might outlaw whatever unholy thing CIA is doing today; 2. CIA does it at a smaller scale, seeding smaller companies;

So it's okay? Fascinating.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#78

Post by dylan604 » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

theNJR wrote: post #50

mark_l_watson wrote: post #45

A little off topic: I think multiple countries should join together to co-sponsor security evaluation labs to check Cisco, Huawei, and all telecom companies. These labs should get access to hardware design, software, etc. This can be done in a way that mostly protects individual company’s intellectual property. I suspect that the top telecom tech companies would go along with this idea, to get vetted, if it would hel…

Sort of like UN weapons inspects?

I like that. If we are using vocabulary like Cyber Warfare, Cyber Attacks, and even now seeing actual bombs blowing up buildings as a retaliation of a cyber attack, then why not. Who would be the Scott Ritter of the cyber world? Although, the only people that I'd trust to understand the equipment are the exact people I wouldn't trust with my equipment! ;-)

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#79

Post by ISV_Damocles » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #54

ISV_Damocles wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (We should also not forget or excuse Chinese IP theft which has enabled Huawei to produce competitive products in the first place...) I certainly can, because it would be hypocritical to be against Microsoft using IP rights as a bludgeon on Linux, Qualcomm on Apple, Oracle on Google, and then be upset with Huawei on anything but stealing trade secrets. Patents have not helped the common man for at least a hundred y…

Stealing trade secrets is precisely what people are mad about, so your whole point is moot.

That's why I separated it out. The post I replied to made a blanket statement about IP law in general, which I think is currently very flawed and certain actions that Huawei and others have done with respect to patents I have no issues with.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#80

Post by burtonator » Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:17 AM UTC

I'm really looking forward to a time with the United States, Russia, and China all agree to get along and decide to screw all the poor people equally instead of just trying to screw poor people in their own country.