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Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#51

Post by cup »

quotz wrote: post #49
mark_l_watson wrote: post #45

A little off topic: I think multiple countries should join together to co-sponsor security evaluation labs to check Cisco, Huawei, and all telecom companies. These labs should get access to hardware design, software, etc. This can be done in a way that mostly protects individual company’s intellectual property. I suspect that the top telecom tech companies would go along with this idea, to get vetted, if it would hel…

Yeah, the problem is that unlike the EU and US companies, Huawei is just the institutional arm of a communist dictatorship regime masked as a company.

And CIA seeded companies aren't?

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#52

Post by deertick1 »

bvdba wrote: post #32
cletus wrote: post #31

This just goes to prove that even a racist clock is right twice a day [1] because it's clear that: - China has engaged in state-sponsored corporate and military espionage; and - Chinese companies are not separate from the state. The only reasonable conclusion here is that Huawei gear on key networking infrastructure represents a security threat and really that's all there is to it. I find it odd that it's taken Trump…

I don't believe this is the consequence of Trump being racist.

I don't believe trump is racist.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#53

Post by nickpsecurity »

Alupis wrote: post #21
petschge wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government deciding to not purchase that equipment for their own use in sensitive networks is one thing. (And this was already in place before this executive order.) Banning corporations from doing that in their own commercial networks is another thing (and that is what happens now). And pressuring other countries (either via ambassadors or other venues) and threatening with sanctions when they come to their own…

> Banning corporations from doing that in their own commercial networks is another thing I'd argue that it depends. Many of the corporations that would run this type of equipment end up transmitting, storing, or using sensitive and/or secret information (ranging from corporate trade secrets/IP to classified information), or could be open to abuse in other meaningful ways (cell towers recording private phone calls fro…

If US government wanted us secure, they'd let us buy Type 1- and TEMPEST-certified gear that is strong enough to stop their pentests with minimal side channels, too. That's Defense-only. The stuff they recommend for rest of us are built on things like Linux which consistently has vulnerabilities, some of which they and foreign hackers use.

I'd consider blocking foreign products that might be insecure if they'd:

(a) Let me buy their secure products for same use cases. The WAN encryptors and Inline, Media Encryptors w/ trusted paths come to mind.

(b) Start recommending, sponsering, and evaluating more high-security systems like they did under TCSEC. Especially covering the costs of the platform with open, permissively-licensed code so others have fewer excuses not to build on it.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#54

Post by GauntletWizard »

ISV_Damocles wrote: post #38
Alupis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the fear mongering or problem here. This executive order would forbid the government from purchasing and installing Telecom/Networking equipment that would be considered to have a higher than acceptable risk. Given that China isn't exactly the most friendly nation to the US, and given Huawei is by nature, an extension of the Chinese Government, it's not unreasonable to assume China might at some po…

> (We should also not forget or excuse Chinese IP theft which has enabled Huawei to produce competitive products in the first place...) I certainly can, because it would be hypocritical to be against Microsoft using IP rights as a bludgeon on Linux, Qualcomm on Apple, Oracle on Google, and then be upset with Huawei on anything but stealing trade secrets. Patents have not helped the common man for at least a hundred y…

Stealing trade secrets is precisely what people are mad about, so your whole point is moot.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#55

Post by HillaryBriss »

bogomipz wrote: post #43

"Foreign Telecom Gear" really only ever seems to mean Huawei and China in these proclamations. The fact is the majority of Telecom gear is foreign-made with regards to the US. To wit: Alcatel-Lucent - France Nokia - Finland Siemens - Germany Samsung - Korea Fujitsu and NEC - Japan If the US were to truly enforce a domestic US-only vendor selection it would be limited to Cienna, Cisco, Qualcomm and Motorola. And to my…

isn't all this stuff actually manufactured in China?

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#56

Post by arnieswap »

chrisco255 wrote: post #18
Alupis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the fear mongering or problem here. This executive order would forbid the government from purchasing and installing Telecom/Networking equipment that would be considered to have a higher than acceptable risk. Given that China isn't exactly the most friendly nation to the US, and given Huawei is by nature, an extension of the Chinese Government, it's not unreasonable to assume China might at some po…

Maybe that's our fault for outsourcing all of our semiconductor production to China. We got cheap electronics out of the deal, but we've lost a lot of expertise in manufacturing as a result.

The rest of the world can also stop 'outsourcing' their IT to the US and STOP using Apple, Microsoft, Google, Intel...

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#57

Post by nickpsecurity »

bogomipz wrote: post #43

"Foreign Telecom Gear" really only ever seems to mean Huawei and China in these proclamations. The fact is the majority of Telecom gear is foreign-made with regards to the US. To wit: Alcatel-Lucent - France Nokia - Finland Siemens - Germany Samsung - Korea Fujitsu and NEC - Japan If the US were to truly enforce a domestic US-only vendor selection it would be limited to Cienna, Cisco, Qualcomm and Motorola. And to my…

It could get worse if you consider many companies have R&D centers in countries that like IP spying. That includes Russia and China. For China, true more often if hardware development is involved.

So, Trump gonna require all potentially-subversive, foreign, R&D centers to be shut down with it all imported to America? Then require them to be US citizens born here with low risk of foreign influence? And then paid well with stable lifestyle with lower odds of bribery or blackmail?

I think he has no idea what it takes to reduce foreign risk. Besides, the so-called APT's are doing a number on our Fortune 500 companies with techniques like spear fishing with PDF-looking executables. I mean, how much will blocking Chinese equipment even help such companies? ;)

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#58

Post by bsder »

ISV_Damocles wrote: post #38
Alupis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the fear mongering or problem here. This executive order would forbid the government from purchasing and installing Telecom/Networking equipment that would be considered to have a higher than acceptable risk. Given that China isn't exactly the most friendly nation to the US, and given Huawei is by nature, an extension of the Chinese Government, it's not unreasonable to assume China might at some po…

> (We should also not forget or excuse Chinese IP theft which has enabled Huawei to produce competitive products in the first place...) I certainly can, because it would be hypocritical to be against Microsoft using IP rights as a bludgeon on Linux, Qualcomm on Apple, Oracle on Google, and then be upset with Huawei on anything but stealing trade secrets. Patents have not helped the common man for at least a hundred y…

> I certainly can, because it would be hypocritical to be against Microsoft using IP rights as a bludgeon on Linux, Qualcomm on Apple, Oracle on Google, and then be upset with Huawei on anything but stealing trade secrets.

There is a difference between developing technology and getting into a patent war vs wholesale copying of a product so completely that you actually duplicate the BUGS.

Yeah, Huawei did that and Cisco, rightfully, went after them and won. Of course, it didn't do a lot of good after the fact.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#59

Post by jcranmer »

chrisco255 wrote: post #28
Despegar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What semiconductor production is outsourced to China?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabricat... Sort by production capacity

Note that several plants don't have any capacity listed at all, and therefore get sorted to the bottom of the list.

In terms of total capacity, China has about ⅛ of the world semiconductor capacity, the fifth largest country... behind Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, and the US.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#60

Post by tomp »

jeffdavis wrote: post #42
robertAngst wrote: post #16

Can anyone stop him? I don't want him to do this. I don't want these tariffs. Does this mean the Republican Party is compliant in this nonsense?

I am, for the most part, a free-trade advocate. But I have been having more and more doubts when it comes to China. Free trade has not made China a more free place. It looks like they are just using their economic power to hurt freedom everywhere.

Also, there are many limits to free trade. E.g. constant WTO lawsuits regarding one country subsidizing their own corporations. You could easily claim that all Chinese corporations are state-sponsored...
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