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Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

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Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#21

Post by falcolas »

Supermighty wrote: post #16
freditup wrote: post #4

It's a bug for sure, but conclusions like this are over the top for a single small bug: > This isn’t an Apple which has any concern over the quality of its products, or for its users. It’s just another leviathan corporation which has stopped caring or taking pride. One small bug reveals a deep and pervasive problem. I'd rather see a more measured approach to drawing conclusions from a single anecdote.

I completely agree. No one sets out to create bugs in their software. I'd give the engineers working on this the benefit of the doubt versus a grand conspiracy of product apathy.

No-one sets out to create bugs, but these days it feels like nobody sets out to proactively identify and fix bugs either.

Expecting the customers of obscenely profitable companies to QA that company's products (for free) is silly.

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#22

Post by jerf »

arthurcolle wrote: post #18
jbverschoor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And overall power usage. I think I probably know more shortcuts and optimizations on macOS than most people at Apple.

Have any tricks you want to share? My MBP 15" gets 2 hr tops unless its plugged in. Even with "mere" web browsing

Power usage, as in power user, as in "skilled user of software".

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#23

Post by slantyyz »

duxup wrote: post #8
freditup wrote: post #4

It's a bug for sure, but conclusions like this are over the top for a single small bug: > This isn’t an Apple which has any concern over the quality of its products, or for its users. It’s just another leviathan corporation which has stopped caring or taking pride. One small bug reveals a deep and pervasive problem. I'd rather see a more measured approach to drawing conclusions from a single anecdote.

Yeah the "Apple doesn't care about users" line of thinking for one use case or bug here or there is a bit much. Personally I've introduced bad ... choices because I cared about users a few times. It just was a mistake on my part, and yet the whole time I was thinking "this will be better for the user".

>> Yeah the "Apple doesn't care about users" line of thinking for one use case or bug here or there is a bit much.

To be fair, a lot of people choose OSX over other OSes because Apple has the reputation of "sweating the details" in both their software and their hardware.

Some of those people in particular are now noticing that the attention to detail may not be like it was, so it is unsurprising that some are complaining over seemingly little things even when the product as a whole might still be better than its competitors.

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#24

Post by protomyth »

rectang wrote: post #17
protomyth wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was the only item, I would agree with you, but it isn't. Finder is buggy and broken since Mavericks (along with some bugs that look like the got rebroke in [edit]10.14[/edit]). Each new version of Mac OS breaks more stuff. This is exacerbated by their hardware failures and constant "only affects a small number of users" line that gets old. Its a constant stream of breaks these days and they need to start look…

My 2012 MacBook Pro Retina has been more stable on Mojave than on any previous OS. It used to crash at least once a week; at the moment `uptime` tells me it's been 21 days since a reboot. I attribute this to improvements in the reliability of Airplay: my machine used to be prone to crashing after connecting via Airplay (either sound only or mirroring) to my old Apple TV. I'm sure other things have been broken along t…

Airplay is something iOS uses, so I would expect it to get fixed. Finder and Keyboard Shortcuts are Mac OS only, and it shows in its lack of testing. I don't think Apple is tackling the hard problems unless it benefits iOS.

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#25

Post by smnscu »

js2 wrote: post #19

This bug is much more subtle that the author describes. I use keyboard shortcuts semi-regularly so I would've noticed this bug, especially if it had been around since 10.13. I never noticed it, but then I realized the author's screenshots are all dark themed. I use the light theme and cannot reproduce it under 10.14.4 with light theme. If I toggle to dark theme, I can reproduce it, but not in a consistent way. Depend…

I mean, they also had this bug for ages:

> There is, still, a long-standing MacOS bug where your balance may drift when volume buttons are pressed while CPU is under heavy load.

https://github.com/jamsinclair/ballast

https://www.tunabellysoftware.com/balance_lock/

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#26

Post by vectorEQ »

lol: "The bug has occurred because of a simple programming error using what I believe Apple refers to as an Outline View. The error is that the first column width, containing the command names, has been set too narrow, and isn’t adjustable by the user either. In coding terms, it’s a trivially simple error which should take a few seconds to fix."

that makes no sense at all looking at the behaviour described. if you want to write an article complaining about someones business processes letting through unacceptable bugs, make sure you understand what is a computer. then perhaps learn to debug issues on it. once you can do that, perhaps you will be less tempted to write such a mess.

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#27

Post by jacobsenscott »

I doubt it is developer apathy. It smells like a management issue. iOS is where the money is. I don't know anyone at apple, but here's how I imagine it is there:

Every OSX engineer probably has more bugs on their plate than can be fixed in one career, in addition to feature development tasks. The OSX team is severely understaffed both because it is not a priority at Apple, and because it is getting harder and harder to find engineers that are able to/willing to work on this kind of code - a Byzantine labyrinth of C flavors that's been accreting lines for decades.

The OSX team is in a desperate fight for recognition and status against the iOS team. They believe (and are probably right) that the only way to gain executive mind share there is to build out new visible features, no matter how useless. Witness dark theme, stacks, dynamic desktop, siri on the desktop, a steady stream of useless iPhone integrations, etc. All the troops are ordered to march relentlessly toward feature development. Stability and bug fixes be damned.

It bet it takes at least three weeks of focused effort and red tape macheteing to fix this bug and it is way down on someone's list. Even if you fix it the change won't make the next OSX key note at the annual IOScon or whatever it is called, so it won't help your career one iota.

Again - this is just how I imagine it is there. I don't really know.

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#28

Post by on_and_off »

smnscu wrote: post #25
js2 wrote: post #19

This bug is much more subtle that the author describes. I use keyboard shortcuts semi-regularly so I would've noticed this bug, especially if it had been around since 10.13. I never noticed it, but then I realized the author's screenshots are all dark themed. I use the light theme and cannot reproduce it under 10.14.4 with light theme. If I toggle to dark theme, I can reproduce it, but not in a consistent way. Depend…

I mean, they also had this bug for ages: > There is, still, a long-standing MacOS bug where your balance may drift when volume buttons are pressed while CPU is under heavy load. https://github.com/jamsinclair/ballast https://www.tunabellysoftware.com/balance_lock/

ohhh ! that's what happened ! I had this happen to me a couple of month ago. I thought that my headphones were busted until I realized that OsX had decided to mess with the balance for no reason.

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#29

Post by tyingq »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #27

I doubt it is developer apathy. It smells like a management issue. iOS is where the money is. I don't know anyone at apple, but here's how I imagine it is there: Every OSX engineer probably has more bugs on their plate than can be fixed in one career, in addition to feature development tasks. The OSX team is severely understaffed both because it is not a priority at Apple, and because it is getting harder and harder…

Is there some credible source as to what percentage of revenue or profit MacOS drives versus the rest of the org?

Re: Mac: Keyboard Shortcuts Killed by Bug

#30

Post by wDcBKgt66V8WDs »

hollerith wrote: post #14
wDcBKgt66V8WDs wrote: post #13

Tangent (or OT), something I've been struggling with as a new macOS user, how do I get keyboard repeats working? I understand they removed repeats so that a long press can offer accent characters. I've done `defaults write -g KeyRepeat -int 5` or something like that and it kinda works but somehow doesn't feel "right" still. Am I missing something obvious?

I haven't experienced your problem on my Mac, but you might try adjusting InitialKeyRepeat, too. I believe the old default was 15 (225 ms). (The old default for KeyRepeat was 2 (30 ms).)

Wow significantly better, I was at 30/5. I had tried lower settings (I think 10/1) at some point and logging in again was hilariously difficult so I stopped messing with it out of fear.

15/2 is beauty. Thanks a lot!

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