Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 222 posts

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#211

Post by pavel_lishin »

afpx wrote: post #177
ceejayoz wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

58 dead and 851 injuries isn't major?

It’s a lot. But, in comparison to how many people die in a year? No, not really. Plus, the original topic is about foreign threats, not domestic.

> But, in comparison to how many people die in a year? No, not really.

Then major terrorist attacks don't exist.

> Plus, the original topic is about foreign threats, not domestic.

I wonder if RealID and facial scanning would help with these goalposts, they keep wandering off.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#212

Post by moate »

vinay427 wrote: post #164
FireBeyond wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one spin on it, but more fear-mongered. The more accurate one is that elements of the Federal Government are "unhappy" that some States will issue a Drivers License based on understanding of road laws and practical skills, and not based on demonstration of legal residence or citizenship. Washington, for example, is one. You pass your test, written, practical, pay your fee. They don't ask about your citizenship…

Well, this requirement makes sense from a federal perspective, and the ridiculous saga that ensued over getting states to comply (including the seemingly incompetent ones, looking at you California...) points to the "problem" of not having a federal universally accessible ID, including for proof of residence and/or citizenship. If the federal government wants to have an ID that displays legal residence, then they can…

I genuinely wonder how much xenophobic fear-mongering you would have to drum up in order to get the "Don't Tread On Me" camp to agree to mandatory federal ID. I think you're right, it's much easier to just slip it in on the state level with Licenses.

Also, do you think California was being actually inept or just willfully ignorant based on their demographics? I live in NJ and I know we were also one of the laggards. Shocker, we also have a very large immigrant population, and have a AG that issued orders not to assist ICE. Seems like it's probably easier to play coy and just drag your feet on this one. Or it could just be good ol fashioned government bureaucracy and ineptitude.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#213

Post by sneak »

jandrese wrote: post #98
sneak wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this every time I re-entered the US for several years. After a few times, they took to arresting me for 4-10 hours on EVERY ENTRY, sending busses without me, making me miss connecting flights, et c. One time I was locked in a room without food, water, or medication for 12 hours. (FWIW, I'm white, a US citizen, employed, and wealthy-by-most-standards-but-not-by-HNs.) They'd sometimes simply intimidate me, someti…

You definitely got put on the "probable drug smuggler" list. Luckily you seem to have fallen off of that list but if you went back to your old behavior I'm sure you could find your way back on it.

It’s not okay to assume someone is breaking the law and treat them like a criminal and force them to incur thousands of dollars of additional expense simply because they invoked their human rights.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#214

Post by georgespencer »

alistairSH wrote: post #204
georgespencer wrote: post #134

Fun fact: the passport gates at UK airports appear to be biometric, but aren't. You step into a little gate, place your passport photo page down onto a scanner, and look into a camera for a photograph. The thing which slows folks down at passport gates (and the reason the best passport control agents don't have a jocular welcoming patter) is the hello/goodbye/talking around the manual "look at your face, look at your…

Interesting, I just went through Heathrow, both inbound (US to UK connection to Glasgow, then UK to US connection back). At the in-bound border control, there was a passport scan and photo, then at the gate, that photo was displayed and a second photo was taken. In my case it also was flagged and delayed my boarding while the gate agent manually told the system “he’s ok”. The agent repeatedly had me move around so th…

I can only comment on inbound for UK passport holders on the way back into the country. There is no matching to a previous photo: you are scanning your passport and having a photo taken of your face simultaneously, whereupon the box fires up on the screen of a guy behind the desk. (You can actually see their screens as you walk past, with all the photos flashing up for them to approve.)

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#215

Post by georgespencer »

jedieaston wrote: post #200
georgespencer wrote: post #134

Fun fact: the passport gates at UK airports appear to be biometric, but aren't. You step into a little gate, place your passport photo page down onto a scanner, and look into a camera for a photograph. The thing which slows folks down at passport gates (and the reason the best passport control agents don't have a jocular welcoming patter) is the hello/goodbye/talking around the manual "look at your face, look at your…

What’s up with the UK acting like they are more technologically advanced than they are? They do the same thing with the TV License detection vans.

TV Detection Vans do appear to be able to detect televisions in operation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#216

Post by kzrdude »

Symbiote wrote: post #178
DuskStar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last few times I've returned to the states I haven't even had to talk to a customs agent - but signing up for Global Entry might be too much of a violation of privacy by some standards.

I think every time I enter the European Union as a citizen (crossing the border in Denmark, Germany, the UK, France, the Netherlands or Spain) I've either not interacted with anyone (electronic border gate), or said nothing more than "hello" and "thank you". Speaking to a customs official is very rare, I've only had that happen once. Do most Americans get questioned at their own border? I do, but I'd assumed that was…

I can't stand the "electronic border gate" either, it's so orwellian

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#218

Post by beatgammit »

docker_up wrote: post #109
nimbius wrote: post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

I understand the need to exercise freedom, and I do this when in line for TSA. I opt for hand-screening usually. But I don't see what the point is in not answering where you visited. I'm pretty sure they already have this information so there's no point in hiding it, in my opinion. Plane tickets, hotel bookings, credit card usage, etc all will tell an easy tale as to where you were and what you did.

Why should you tell an officer something that you're not legally required to? It's none of their business, and if they can look it up, they can go ahead. It's a means of peaceful resistance to a procedure that's arguably unconstitutional (fourth amendment).

Personally, I usually travel with family, so I don't want to make a scene. But when I travel alone, I'm a bit more resistant to trade my rights for convenience.

I completely understand and respect people who peacefully resist border security, and hopefully those agents learn a thing or two about where the limits to their authority are. Please don't be a jerk about it, but you should never be compelled to give any more information or assistant than legally required.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#219

Post by alistairSH »

georgespencer wrote: post #214
alistairSH wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I just went through Heathrow, both inbound (US to UK connection to Glasgow, then UK to US connection back). At the in-bound border control, there was a passport scan and photo, then at the gate, that photo was displayed and a second photo was taken. In my case it also was flagged and delayed my boarding while the gate agent manually told the system “he’s ok”. The agent repeatedly had me move around so th…

I can only comment on inbound for UK passport holders on the way back into the country. There is no matching to a previous photo: you are scanning your passport and having a photo taken of your face simultaneously, whereupon the box fires up on the screen of a guy behind the desk. (You can actually see their screens as you walk past, with all the photos flashing up for them to approve.)

So, you haven't encountered the photo at the gate? Just at security or border? Weird. Pretty sure the flow for me was... De-plane in Terminal 5, follow signs to Connections, through border control (non-EU), immediately enter automated passport scan/photo machine, re-enter gate-side Terminal 5. Then, at boarding gate, there was another photo machine which appeared to matching that photo with the one taken back at the border check.

And Inverness had none of the above. Just a normal manual check of passport in the security line. Not surprising, given the size of the airport.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#220

Post by georgespencer »

alistairSH wrote: post #219
georgespencer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only comment on inbound for UK passport holders on the way back into the country. There is no matching to a previous photo: you are scanning your passport and having a photo taken of your face simultaneously, whereupon the box fires up on the screen of a guy behind the desk. (You can actually see their screens as you walk past, with all the photos flashing up for them to approve.)

So, you haven't encountered the photo at the gate? Just at security or border? Weird. Pretty sure the flow for me was... De-plane in Terminal 5, follow signs to Connections, through border control (non-EU), immediately enter automated passport scan/photo machine, re-enter gate-side Terminal 5. Then, at boarding gate, there was another photo machine which appeared to matching that photo with the one taken back at the…

I haven't at gate, no. At Newark a couple months ago they had an automated TSA-type check at security which was capturing fingerprints, but I can't quite remember the specifics (feels like the last few months have been either a state of experiencing, or recovering from, jetlag).

Inverness is great btw!

Post reply on HN