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Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#101

Post by ceejayoz »

objektif wrote: post #92
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Deregulate the health insurance market so you can sell across state lines. 2. Employers start giving their employees the money they pay on their behalf. 3. People shop for the health insurance they want/need. In a year, every other advertisement on TV would be for health insurance, like it is with car insurance now.

It is quiet shocking to see #1 getting posted over and over again. How is that supposed to solve the pricing problem? How do you like pricing of say Comcast, Apple or any other company with pricing power? They offer services accross all states. I think it is way past time that we stop offering cute free market solutions to our disasterous healthcare industry. Medicare for All or gtfo.

> It is quiet shocking to see #1 getting posted over and over again.

Yup. If anything, it'd make things substantially worse.

There's a reason all the credit card companies moved to Delaware - they found the most favorable jurisdiction (and work to ensure it stays that way).

Health insurers would love to all move to the most insurer-friendly jurisdiction.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#102

Post by manigandham »

dnautics wrote: post #68

Having been an Uber /Lyft driver I can't even fathom what it would mean for a driver to be an employee with expenses paid. Is the driver driving a gas guzzling F250 entitled to a higher reimbursement for cost of driving than me driving a Honda insight?

Professional drivers already exist. Look at any taxi, delivery, bus or transit company. That's what Uber would do. Lease a bunch of vehicles and tell people to drive them for 8 hours a day for a flat rate, and they'll have strict hours and no flexibility.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#103

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

donarb wrote: post #98
fooey wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already legal in several states, but no insurance companies took them up on it. Trump additionally signed an executive order to setup a national way to do it, but it died off as a policy proposal because the insurance companies aren't interested http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/out-of-state-health-insu...

The problem with insurance across state lines is that insurance companies would create a policy in a state with lax regulation and rules and sell that policy everywhere else. It's the same sort of crap that allows credit card companies to set up in South Dakota because that state has lax laws over usury rates.

Regulations should apply where the product is sold, or used, not where it’s manufactured.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#104

Post by wvenable »

sgustard wrote: post #30
wvenable wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also, obviously, set their own hours and choose at any time to work or not work.

Per https://legal.uncc.edu/legal-topics/contracts/contract-check... "If the worker is not integrated into the institution's operations and the right of control is not obviously apparent (no training, no work hours, no reports), you are reasonably safe as long as the relationship is short-term and the independent contractor has other customers." I would say "integrated into the institution's operations" is the very de…

That's dependent on your definition of integrated. Uber drivers never go into Uber's offices. They never meet Uber staff or managers (the actual employees of Uber). That's possibly as far from "integrated" as you can get. Uber drivers have a very similar relationship to Uber as it's customers do -- but you wouldn't argue the customers are integrated.

They may be essential for Uber's business but that is different. Customers are also essential. Contractors can be essential.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#105

Post by twblalock »

sushisushisushi wrote: post #28
dcosson wrote: post #23

It’s sad that the idea of people being able to get by and live a comfortable life without the benefits from a full time job is so far outside the Overton window that it’s not even mentioned in these conversations. That seems like such an obviously better outcome for everyone - what if we got rid of healthcare benefits and other types of favorable tax treatment that are tied to full time employment so that everyone is…

It's not really outside the Overton window. Universal healthcare has strong majority support right now. Employers and shareholders benefit significantly by reducing options for workers and by making it difficult for workers to change jobs; the source of the resistance is there, in the plain language of power, not in some imaginary spectrum of what's considered to be acceptable.

Most employers would love to be able to stop paying for their employees' health care.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#106

Post by fthssht »

whoopdedo wrote: post #89
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Deregulate the health insurance market so you can sell across state lines. 2. Employers start giving their employees the money they pay on their behalf. 3. People shop for the health insurance they want/need. In a year, every other advertisement on TV would be for health insurance, like it is with car insurance now.

You're #1 states two things as if they are the same. Your final statement seems to imply that the affordability of auto insurance derives from the above conditions. Except you make one glaring mistake: auto insurance is not regulated. Rather, the rates that insurers can charge is highly regulated. #3 also doesn't make sense because people don't buy the auto insurance that they want. They buy the insurance that the st…

"You're #1 states two things as if they are the same."

Maybe he was referring to the regulation that prevents health insurance from being sold across state lines? That would have been my guess. And you made one glaring mistake... your spelling of your.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#107

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

throwawaytoday5 wrote: post #97
dgzl wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friendly reminder that our 10th Amendment rights exist specifically to limit federal power, and to give states superceding power over the federal government. The opposite doesn't actually exist.

Nice to know that people are still clinging to a document that can literally mean whatever we want it to when convenient while Americans continue to shuffle and get raped by the corporate class.

The US constitution is, like all other written law, mostly meaningless, given enough time.

If you don’t like it, changed it: they’re called amendments.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#108

Post by maximente »

derekp7 wrote: post #79

I wonder if a simple change to Uber's app would fix all this -- let drivers set their own rates, and customers could pick from a number of drivers nearby based on how close they are, and what rate they charge. And/or let customers put out a bid for the rate they want to pay, then any driver can accept that bid and get the fare. That way drivers could be more legally considered contractors (they set their own rates),…

these apps exist in Colombia, probably other knock offs i'm not aware of as well

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#109

Post by landryraccoon »

inkaudio wrote: post #29
ralusek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "true" supply and demand? What was happening before was true supply and demand. They offered a rate, people were capable of consenting to the terms while accounting for expenses, and they did. Then an intermediary stepped between the consenting transactors and told them that they could no longer accept those terms, and now those transactions can no longer transpire, regardless of whether or not both…

When you charge far less than the actual cost of service you're going to get demand that does not reflect the actual market, hence not true "true" supply and demand. If I was selling dollar bills for 50 cents I would sell a lot of dollars bills. We've seen this before it's called Groupon. A key difference between Uber and Groupon is there are more drivers to con then there are businesses. Uber is losing billions doll…

If you are saying that venture capitalists and naive investors are paying for part of my ride each time I take an Uber why wouldn’t I want to get as many subsidized rides in as I can before they go broke? How am I as a consumer not gaining every time this happens?

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#110

Post by LeoPanthera »

derekp7 wrote: post #79

I wonder if a simple change to Uber's app would fix all this -- let drivers set their own rates, and customers could pick from a number of drivers nearby based on how close they are, and what rate they charge. And/or let customers put out a bid for the rate they want to pay, then any driver can accept that bid and get the fare. That way drivers could be more legally considered contractors (they set their own rates),…

This is exactly how Sidecar used to work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidecar_(company)

Sidecar was acquired by GM after it shut down at the end of 2015.

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