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Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#11

Post by ralusek »

inkaudio wrote: post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

What do you mean "true" supply and demand? What was happening before was true supply and demand. They offered a rate, people were capable of consenting to the terms while accounting for expenses, and they did. Then an intermediary stepped between the consenting transactors and told them that they could no longer accept those terms, and now those transactions can no longer transpire, regardless of whether or not both parties would like to engage. How is that true supply and demand?

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#13

Post by antaviana »

glitchc wrote: post #8
ajross wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, what? The "over-reliance on executive agencies to set policy" is just shorthand for "congress can't pass these laws". But that's not because some passive voice nonsense about "political paralysis", it's because these are partisan issues . One party doesn't want these laws to pass, and won't vote for them . It's not a passive structural problem. There are good guys and bad guys here. If you actually care, i…

Take a stand against who? The politicians are empowered by regular Americans who support them. Your neighbors and friends.

And half of these regular Americans have an IQ below average.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#14

Post by gridlockd »

inkaudio wrote: post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

> Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses.

Since they are not employees, they don't get a wage, so minimum wage laws don't apply.

> Case in point, when Uber/Lyft was forced to pay their drivers a minimum wage that accounted for expenses, Uber and Lyft stopped accepting new drivers in New York City. They were force to act according to true supply and demand.

This was the result of the city of New York deciding, on behalf of the taxi lobby, that there were too many Ubers on the street, so they fixed the supply to make the average pay add up to 17$/hour (which is not a minimum wage either).

Real supply of drivers was higher than that, people that wanted to drive at lower price were effectively prohibited from entering the market.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#15

Post by sdegutis »

inkaudio wrote: post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

What if instead our society reeled globalization back in a little, and we lived in smaller, closer, local communities? I live in a rural-ish area, and any time I get on the interstate, especially during the workweek, I can't help but wonder how much those people's lives would be improved if everything was in walking or bicycling distance, how much more time they would have to give to their families or their interests or even their daily needs. Maybe it's not possible for most people due to unfortunate situations society has created. But didn't we do this to ourselves?

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#16

Post by gridlockd »

sdegutis wrote: post #15
inkaudio wrote: post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

What if instead our society reeled globalization back in a little, and we lived in smaller, closer, local communities? I live in a rural-ish area, and any time I get on the interstate, especially during the workweek, I can't help but wonder how much those people's lives would be improved if everything was in walking or bicycling distance, how much more time they would have to give to their families or their interests…

How exactly does globalization play a role here? Limousine services are one of the least affected services you can imagine, you can't outsource virtually all of that labor, perhaps with the exception of customer service.

To answer your question: A "rural life" in a "tight-knit community" would be a horror scenario for me. To each their own.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#17

Post by romwell »

ralusek wrote: post #11
inkaudio wrote: post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

What do you mean "true" supply and demand? What was happening before was true supply and demand. They offered a rate, people were capable of consenting to the terms while accounting for expenses, and they did. Then an intermediary stepped between the consenting transactors and told them that they could no longer accept those terms, and now those transactions can no longer transpire, regardless of whether or not both…

>They offered a rate, people were capable of consenting to the terms while accounting for expenses

See, on party here has a lot more data on said expenses, and all the incentives in the world to be misleading about them.

The existing demand was not "true" under the reasonable assumption that nobody wants to work for less than minimum wage after expenses.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#18

Post by baddox »

sdegutis wrote: post #15
inkaudio wrote: post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

What if instead our society reeled globalization back in a little, and we lived in smaller, closer, local communities? I live in a rural-ish area, and any time I get on the interstate, especially during the workweek, I can't help but wonder how much those people's lives would be improved if everything was in walking or bicycling distance, how much more time they would have to give to their families or their interests…

I don't quite understand the connection to globalization or more rural communities. Urban cities, of course, generally offer the best walkability simply because of population density. In my experience in the United States, suburban communities and small towns are most literally unwalkable due to the design of the road network. In rural areas generally it's not feasible to walk simply because your place of work, grocery store, etc. are many miles away.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#19

Post by gridlockd »

romwell wrote: post #17
ralusek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "true" supply and demand? What was happening before was true supply and demand. They offered a rate, people were capable of consenting to the terms while accounting for expenses, and they did. Then an intermediary stepped between the consenting transactors and told them that they could no longer accept those terms, and now those transactions can no longer transpire, regardless of whether or not both…

>They offered a rate, people were capable of consenting to the terms while accounting for expenses See, on party here has a lot more data on said expenses, and all the incentives in the world to be misleading about them. The existing demand was not "true" under the reasonable assumption that nobody wants to work for less than minimum wage after expenses.

> The existing demand was not "true" under the reasonable assumption that nobody wants to work for less than minimum wage after expenses.

That's an unreasonable assumption, especially when that "minimum wage" is 17$.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#20

Post by teej »

ralusek wrote: post #11
inkaudio wrote: post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

What do you mean "true" supply and demand? What was happening before was true supply and demand. They offered a rate, people were capable of consenting to the terms while accounting for expenses, and they did. Then an intermediary stepped between the consenting transactors and told them that they could no longer accept those terms, and now those transactions can no longer transpire, regardless of whether or not both…

> They offered a rate

Uber offered a rate that was subsidized by investors. That is not true supply and demand.

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