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Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

reuters.com

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Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#271

Post by dragonwriter »

sedeki wrote: post #22

Can someone explain to me why the general public has ”turned” on Assange in the last few years? Is it because Wikileaks revealed those Hillary Clinton emails? And that’s the ”protagonist” party? Or is it the rape accusations initiated in Sweden?

> Can someone explain to me why the general public has ”turned” on Assange in the last few years?

The US center to right hated him from the beginning, with leading figures inside and outside of government, aligned with both major parties, calling for his head. There was some sympathy for him (or at least WikiLeaks ostensible mission) on the left.

Being somewhere between a tool and a collaborator in the Russian influence and spinning partisan lies about the source of the information on top of that to conceal that it was a Russian influence op (which itself tends to create the impression that he was more collaborator than tool) soured that, without durably mitigating the hatred the center to right already had for him.

The rape accusations don't help, especially given where what little sympathy he had had was located.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#272

Post by sweeneyrod »

kenneth wrote: post #257
rayiner wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck is “mostly having consent” for sex?

In the case of Miss A, he had reluctant consent. In the case of Miss W, he had consent for sex, but not explicit consent to initiate sex while sleeping. The thing that both of these women reportedly felt violated by was his disregard for their explicit request to use a condom.

"not explicit consent to initiate sex while sleeping" In other words, he had sex with someone without the capacity to consent, which is rape.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#273

Post by r3bl »

blub wrote: post #268
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you're trying to hand-wave this away by using language like "alleged sleep-sex-offenders" and "having sex with their sleeping sex partner without a condom". If this falls under the definition of rape in Sweden then the extradition request is for just that - a charge of rape. This is a very serious crime. Whether you agree with their definition or not doesn't really affect the legality or validity of…

I think everyones's focus on the man and the crime is bogus, because the courts will either way reach a decision hopefully resembling justice. The public should focus on the war crimes, torture and corruption, because this will end up in the history books.

One act, regardless of how heroic it might be, doesn't mean that the person should be free from consequences for the rest of their lives.

The US extraditing him for conspiracy charges would be really tragic. Sweden wanting to hold him accountable for his behavior afterwards is completely fine.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#274

Post by sweeneyrod »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #225
pluma wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put it this way: If I tell you to take a fiver from my wallet and you do it, that's consensual. If you then later take another fiver out of my wallet without my permission, it's not consensual. If I catch you doing it, I might still be okay with it but that doesn't mean it wasn't non-consensual when you did it.

What if, instead of your wallet, it's a box by the door labeled "cab fare" and it's been previously discussed that this box is there for people in the house, me included, to use when catching a cab to the train?

Well, that would be different, because women aren't objects labelled "for having sex with".

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#275

Post by dragonwriter »

colordrops wrote: post #270
dragonwriter wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law in each state of the US is different, but I'm fairly certain in every one sex with someone incapable of consent due to unconsciousness is rape. Rape-by-deception laws are more variable between US states, and the US generally and they are generally new (the last few decades) and still fairly weak, often being driven in each state by desire to address the circumstances of a particular single case where efforts…

It's material because people are using attacks on his character as a proxy to discredit his work. Most people I encounter have completely dismissed Assange, WikiLeaks, and anything related at this point. It seems the CIA smear campaign has succeeded, even though their first attempts were failures, such as the HBGary/Palantir debacle.

> It's material because people are using attacks on his character as a proxy to discredit his work

Even if that were true, the legal status of his alleged acts had they been committed in the US would still not be germane.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#276

Post by plandis »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #201
empath75 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were about what America wants, why wouldn’t they just let America extradite him? They already have an extradition request in.

United Kingdom does not extradite people subject to death penalty.

Neither does Sweden and what the US is charging Assange with wouldn’t warrant the death penalty anyways.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#277

Post by buttcoinslol »

olalonde wrote: post #51
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone consents to have sex only on the condition of protection from disease and pregnancy, and you trick them into sex without a condom that is rape. There may be differences of degrees to the stereotypical violent behind-the-bushes rape. Those should and would be considered for purposes of sentencing. But it's still rape.

> If someone consents to have sex only on the condition of protection from disease and pregnancy I had sex with a girl who lied about being on birth control. Was I raped?

A minor difference: if you want to manage your own risk, you should assume could be lying about taking a birth control pill, whereas you can easily verify someone is wearing a condom.

If I was uncertain whether someone was truly on the birth control pill, I would insist upon condoms if I wanted to fully hedge my risk.

I do see the point you're trying make, but it's a complex issue. I could easily make an argument for the opposite case, that it is rape. But I think being able to verify a condom is being worn makes the situation different enough to treat differently from lying about being on the pill.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#279

Post by blub »

r3bl wrote: post #273
blub wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyones's focus on the man and the crime is bogus, because the courts will either way reach a decision hopefully resembling justice. The public should focus on the war crimes, torture and corruption, because this will end up in the history books.

One act, regardless of how heroic it might be, doesn't mean that the person should be free from consequences for the rest of their lives. The US extraditing him for conspiracy charges would be really tragic. Sweden wanting to hold him accountable for his behavior afterwards is completely fine.

I already said the courts will take care of it.

Why is everyone focusing so much on a person that's had their minutes of fame instead of the crimes they exposed?

This whole thread is full of people debating the definition of rape. Is everyone working for the Swedish prosecution or how is this in any way relevant to anything...

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#280

Post by roel_v »

codedokode wrote: post #101
lostjohnny wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's laughable

What about a case when NSA was wiretapping phone calls of member of German governments, including Angela Merkel [1]? US got away with this without any consequences and Germany said nothing. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10...

What did you think was going to happen? German bombers flying to New York?
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