Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#211

Post by solarkraft » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:04 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #201

snarf21 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are diminishing the importance of brands and brand loyalty for companies. A lot of effort is spent to have boxes designed for retail; size, shape, color, etc. matter a lot for this use case. Resistance to weather and being thrown around are not the main consideration of this use case. Standard size boxes that are shippable might be good for Amazon and the consumer but companies always want the brand front…

Surely a box could be both shippable and branded? One problem is that showing what's inside helps thieves.

... and costs privacy.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#212

Post by benologist » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #5

This sounds like good news. I've read lots of negative stories about the working conditions in Amazon warehouses. It would be great if all the jobs could be automated.

The bad working conditions were superfluously imposed by Bezos, it's not a horrible job without the horrible requirements being added.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#213

Post by jcora » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #38

jcora wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they're good working conditions? Also, a pretty large contigent of the left argues for automation.

Also, a pretty large contigent of the left argues for automation. I am so sick of politicization of everything.

What a novel brave idea, bravo

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#214

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

androidrebel wrote: post #207

asdfman123 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to feel useful to others. Right now, in the US, we fulfill that need through work. Work is an integral part of our culture. If you make a whole swath of the population feel redundant, especially practical, no-nonsense people who are used to having work define who they are, they are not going to adjust well. They are quite different than college-educated hippies who would rather get more education and go s…

UBI encourages parasitic drag on the economy.

No, UBI discourages “parasitic drag” on the aggregate economy compared to conventional means-tested welfare, while more effectively addressing the distributional issues which create the problems means-tested welfare is instituted to address.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#215

Post by ryandrake » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #186

CodeMage wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> twice the speed = twice less developers in a blunt way Except that's not how that works. Increasing the productivity of a job does not eliminate it. A job is eliminated when it's no longer necessary. Unless you live in a parallel dimension, we're both in the world where there's more and more software development being done every day. Twice the speed results in twice the output, not half the developers.

> Increasing the productivity of a job does not eliminate it. Of course it does. Not on an individual level, but if suddenly one employee can do three times more work, there is no need to recruit 2 more full time jobs to address the increasing needs. So on the whole, productivity will destroy jobs, but the good news is that the additional returns will create other jobs in other areas.

If suddenly one developer can do the job of 3, then the other two will be assigned to some of the other unstaffed things they could be doing to also make the company money. Most places I’ve worked have a huge backlog of unstaffed work just waiting to be picked up.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#216

Post by CriticalCathed » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

This is going to be a shock to all of those people who were willing to give tax incentives for Amazon to build distribution warehouses in their city in exchange for "jobs."

Though, this is only the beginning. A few thousand jobs now, the majority of them later.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#217

Post by drewmol » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #129

drewmol wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another negative impact of losing those jobs is that those folks paid income tax. When the operational cost of these tasks are transferred from payroll to capital expense the effective federal tax rate of what was payroll is lost (a ballpark 1.7% - 8.7%[0]) and the added automation cost is used as a deduction on a ballpark -1% - 1%[1] corporate income tax. [0] https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/10/31/heres-what-the…

Where exactly do you think those increased corporate profits are going?

So I'm misunderstanding the effect?

Is the outcome such that the reducion in payroll will lead to increase in profits and then pressumably that profit will be taxed at a minimum of long term capital gains rate when returned to shareholders?

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#218

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

blairanderson wrote: post #168

sandworm101 wrote: post #35

I'm surprised that Amazon still uses boxes. They have the market power to insist manufacturers comply with amazon-specific packaging requirements. Why not just insist that all products be packaged in postal-compatible packaging? Then the amazon warehouse robot need only slap a label on the product and throw it in the shipping bin. Another answer would be to have products packaged in standard, or at lease square, boxe…

You mentioned two processes that have been in place with Amazon Vendors/Manufacturers for many years. 1. Amazon Direct Fulfillment (dropship): Order is shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. Amazon pays for the shipping label and contractually "own" the item once it leaves the MFR doors. Amazon incentivizes Manufacturers by paying the freight and loosening shipment deadlines. [1] 2. Ships In Own Cont…

> Ships In Own Container (Amazon SIOC) certification puts the responsibility on the manufacturer to certify their products can be shipped without extra packaging.

Sorry, but how can this be a good idea? I'd hate if I ordered something expensive, for example a digital camera, and every porch pirate (or shady parcel delivery subcontractor) immediately sees "this thing is worth a couple grand", compared with the usual Amazon grey packaging.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#219

Post by dehrmann » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

gxx wrote: post #33

zdw wrote: post #15

Video of the CarltonWrap mentioned in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1yw05mWnXw It's actually pretty neat - creates boxes to size on demand. Doesn't seem like this would be possible with humans at a store, and could really cut down on box inventory.

If it results in the elimination of oversized boxes it should save on cardboard, also reducing shipping volume. This would be financially and environmentally be a good thing. Maybe they could also include in the box sizing algorithm the optimization of shapes for efficient packing.

Within reason, shipping weight is a bigger deal than volume.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#220

Post by lukewrites » Mon, May 13, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

I'm all for this as soon as we change the laws so companies pay payroll taxes on automation commensurate to the number of paid positions taken by the equipment.

Automation is what we should be striving for, but only if workers and society see material benefits from it. ("Your labor potential can be reallocated to a position of higher need"/"You now have the opportunity to retrain" isn't a material benefit.)