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Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

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Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#61

Post by mgkimsal »

bko wrote: post #36
holoduke wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean it's non deterministic? Because it is using floating point operations? Can you elaborate?

I'm not OP, but I think he means that the final decisions acted upon are not deterministic. So given an input, it won't necessarily produce the same decision every time. For instance, if the model predicts with a 95% certainty to accelerate, then 5% of the time it'll do some action other than accelerating.

might it also be 'non-deterministic' if it accelerates 100% of the time, but accelerates at different speeds 5% of the time? or is that too granular a view?

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#62

Post by taneq »

holoduke wrote: post #32
kyle_martin1 wrote: post #25

I work as a lead autonomous vehicle engineer. Here's a few thoughts: * This isn't really open-source. The most important part, the neural network perception pipeline, is closed sourced. Without the training data and the network architectures, the supporting code is not that useful. * This system is non-deterministic, which is a no-no in critical systems like autonomous vehicle. There's no guarantee that vehicle detec…

What do you mean it's non deterministic? Because it is using floating point operations? Can you elaborate?

I'd guess it's about guaranteed response times (which is the definition of a realtime system - it must respond within the specified time). Since it's running a non-realtime OS, you could get arbitrarily long gaps in execution, which is not great for something that's driving a car.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#63

Post by syntaxing »

czr wrote: post #21

For those who haven't seen Openpilot before, or recently: * George Hotz (not "Hortz") is working on other stuff now [0], and is no longer CEO. * While "I'm running open-source self-driving software from GitHub" sounds terrifying, the software is very good at what it does, which is very limited (LKAS / ACC / driver monitoring). Browsing test videos on YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=openpilot+0.…

I knew he stepped down but I didn't know he was starting a new venture already. Is there any indication what the new venture is about? The site doesn't say much unfortunately.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#64

Post by mwfunk »

stale2002 wrote: post #58
Bendingo wrote: post #51

This seems mind bogglingly dangerous. At least with commercial self-driving vehicles, there is a responsible legal entity (the car manufacturer). The thought of thousands of amateurs and enthusiasts releasing their hacked self-driving cars on the public roads is terrifying. The disclaimer "YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPLYING WITH LOCAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS" is nice, but I can't that stopping the mindset of "I've just t…

There is nothing illegal about modifying your own car. People have been doing so since cars were invented. "Amateur" car modifications are already very wide spread.

Sure there is, depending on what you’re doing and where you live. There’s all sorts of things you could do that would make a vehicle no longer street legal and/or a danger to yourself and others. And I would hope people would take the latter very seriously, even if what they’re doing isn’t illegal.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#65

Post by Bendingo »

stale2002 wrote: post #58
Bendingo wrote: post #51

This seems mind bogglingly dangerous. At least with commercial self-driving vehicles, there is a responsible legal entity (the car manufacturer). The thought of thousands of amateurs and enthusiasts releasing their hacked self-driving cars on the public roads is terrifying. The disclaimer "YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPLYING WITH LOCAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS" is nice, but I can't that stopping the mindset of "I've just t…

There is nothing illegal about modifying your own car. People have been doing so since cars were invented. "Amateur" car modifications are already very wide spread.

Yes, I appreciate that. Although it's worth mentioning that some modifications (such as removing seat belts or tail-lights) would render the car un-roadworthy and are effectively illegal.

My concern is less with legality and more with lethality.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#66

Post by aphextron »

jakecopp wrote: post #57
aphextron wrote: post #47

I've been using Openpilot in my 2018 Corolla for the past few months. Some takeaways: It's mind-blowingly good. Easily on par with Autopilot (That is, Autopilot's ACTUAL capabilities, not what they show in marketing promos). For long highway trips, it's easy to go hours without a disengagement. The full setup costs about $800, is completely plug-and-play, and you can order everything you need on the site (EON/Panda/G…

I had no idea the software was in use and this stable! Is the discord community the best way to follow progress or are there other resources?

>I had no idea the software was in use and this stable! Is the discord community the best way to follow progress or are there other resources?

Yep, the Discord is super active and there's plenty of people to help you out if you hit any snags. But the hardware is super easy to install and ready to go if you have a compatible car. There's also a lot of active Youtubers like ku7 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXmUBvIuFLjLRuJ0mX298Ng) and arne (https://www.youtube.com/user/arneschwarck) that are building their own forks.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#67

Post by mwfunk »

rightbyte wrote: post #13
snazz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Tesla programmers have been arrested for Autopilot-related crashes.

Tesla probably have the paperwork and certs in order when NTSB knocks the door. NHTSA have already shut down comma.ai products before. EDIT: I personally thinks it's a bit to reckless to let the general public use the Autopilot in it's present state. https://comma.ai/shop/products/eon-gold-dashcam-devkit "Retrofit your car with a copilot." "Note: This product is not designed to drive a car. This product is designed t…

To me, the fact that Hotz didn’t seem to realize that NHTSA was a thing that existed and that he should be talking to them makes me not trust anything the guy does. If someone can be that colossally ignorant about something that’s so central to what they’re trying to do, and they react to it by basically throwing a tantrum instead of trying to get their shit together and move forward constructively, it calls into question everything about them, including their actual expertise with stuff people think they’re experts in.

It’s like finding out that the neurosurgeon who’s about to operate on you is also a flat earther- it doesn’t directly impact his ability to be a neurosurgeon, but it would be a big red flag that calls everything else into question.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#68

Post by MuffinFlavored »

a-dub wrote: post #45
a-dub wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) They actually open sourced the vision pipeline code a few months ago. The visiond binary has been replaced by source code. 2) Yeah. The proper way to do these things is with a real RTOS, but at the same time 20hz is pretty slow anyways.

I should also mention that the RT approach isn't the holy grail either for time sensitive robotic control systems. Read up on the Pathfinder/vxWorks priority inversion bug if you'd like to see how hard deadlines can sometimes cause more problems than they solve...

What’s the answer then?

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#69

Post by aphextron »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #59
aphextron wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is stupid. All the demos are on public roads. George Hortz needs to chill before he ends up in jail. There are literally thousands of community members using this software on a daily basis, driving thousands of miles in real life situations daily. I've been commuting to work with it for 3 months now and it's the most lifechanging piece of tech I've come across since the iPhone. I get on the highway, engage the…

This is extremely reckless

>This is extremely reckless

I find driving without it to be reckless at this point. Humans are susceptible to distraction, OpenPilot is not.

Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent

#70

Post by aphextron »

mayniac wrote: post #56
aphextron wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is stupid. All the demos are on public roads. George Hortz needs to chill before he ends up in jail. There are literally thousands of community members using this software on a daily basis, driving thousands of miles in real life situations daily. I've been commuting to work with it for 3 months now and it's the most lifechanging piece of tech I've come across since the iPhone. I get on the highway, engage the…

>I get on the highway, engage the system, and sit back sipping my coffee for the next 45 minutes. Please, do not do this.

>Please, do not do this.

I get that people are unable to comprehend the fact that true level 2 autonomy is here and ready to use, but it is. It's perfectly safe to sit back completely disengaged from the controls on OpenPilot, so long as your eyes are on the road (which the software enforces with head tracking). Any sort of situation that could require you to take control is warned in advance.

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