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Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

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Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#141

Why doesn't Google treat all websites that load under 100ms at par with an AMP site? They keep using the ruse that AMP is important because it is all about fast loading sites and less frustrating user experience but they have page speed insights, and already rank sites based on load speed so why force this non standard on everyone? If they just said we'll give you a bolt icon and the perks for a site that loads under…

Basically, because it isn't actually possible to make a website that loads in under 100ms on poor connections any other way. For reference, on the fast university wifi I am currently connected to, news.ycombinator.com loads in 499ms. When I switch to my phone's hotspot, that rises to 2.38 seconds, and on a simulated slow 3G network, that rises to 6.51 seconds. I haven't tested a 2G connection in India, but wouldn't be surprised if it exceeds 10 seconds. Hacker News is not a heavy webpage, in fact, it is probably about as lightweight a webpage as is reasonably possible to create.

The key technique that AMP promises will beat the limits of network latency is precaching. Unfortunately, users have a strong privacy expectation that random websites will not be notified that you are interested in them until you actually click the link in search results (or news, or whatever). For precaching to work without violating user privacy, the data needs to be loaded from some server that already knows that the link was shown to you, so there is no privacy violation from giving it that information. AMP's solution is for the host company of the results page to fill that role.

The AMP lightning bolt is intended to mean "this page is already downloaded offline on your device, and so will load instantly", not just "this page is well-designed and fast". The difference is minor for blazing fast connections, but that isn't true for developing world users with weak connections and devices.

Google has said that when open web standards like Web Packaging finally show up which enable the same safe preloading behavior, those sites will be included in AMP carousels. We'll see whether they follow through with that. [1] [2]

* All experiments conducted with cache disabled, times are until Load event fires.

[1] https://blog.amp.dev/2018/03/08/standardizing-lessons-learne...

[2] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/master/contributi...

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#143
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only issue with DDG (which doesn’t stop me using it) is if you turn off safe search (eg to prevent false positive blocks for something you want to find) holy shit does a lot of porn show up - for completely non-sexual terms. I’m a big boy, I’m not offended by most of it (the frequency of bizarre Simpson’s porn is a little weird) but it’s somewhat weird the way it appears. I searched for “power Mac case door”, all…

> “power Mac case door” I have the same results for animated gifs with safe search off, but I think it’s more because of the presence of “power” or “mac” in so many of these gifs or related pages, compared to the number of gifs of computer related stuff. Put it another way, I think these are legit results, and not false positives or usurping the search terms.

This is probably why people tend to think google search sucks. It's probably true that most search terms are not going to give you want you want to see. Google disregards the precise terms because they aren't useful to search for, and instead tries to understand the intent of your search.

For nerds, this makes google search suck, because they still construct search queries they way they did in 2000 (that's me too). For most people, it makes google search magically good compared to what they would get from a more "precise" search engine.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#144
post #52

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

What about the fact that it was originally called Page Speed Project and was a genuinely open standard; that that was subsequently shut down in favor of AMP? That the difference between the two is that Page Speed did not have attractive collusive lock-in effects while AMP does have collusive lock-in effects?

Did it work? Page Speed existed for a long time, and over that time, a huge portion of websites became bloated as hell and ridiculously slow. Hackernews is just about the only website I can think of that didn't.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#145
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you were paid to work on this, you are either wilfully ignorant or morally corrupt. I'm not a fan of AMP, but this is way over the top.

No, why would it be? All those people working for Facebook, Google all the other companies abusing our privacy are making a ton of money and we're all paying the costs. Why should we tolerate that? They are worthy of contempt.

There are people on this very website who have vehemently defended software that decides whether some person needs to be killed with a missile from a drone. That have defended and encouraged companies like Google to help military kill foreigners, countrymen and countrywomen of many people visiting this site.

And AMP, a restricted web standard, is that's "worth of contempt"? Please, please, take a step back and think of it for a moment.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#146

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

Anyone else looking to respond to this innocent sounding and highly reductionist question should just have a peek at the account’s comment history.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#147
post #145
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, why would it be? All those people working for Facebook, Google all the other companies abusing our privacy are making a ton of money and we're all paying the costs. Why should we tolerate that? They are worthy of contempt.

There are people on this very website who have vehemently defended software that decides whether some person needs to be killed with a missile from a drone. That have defended and encouraged companies like Google to help military kill foreigners, countrymen and countrywomen of many people visiting this site. And AMP, a restricted web standard, is that's "worth of contempt"? Please, please, take a step back and think…

How much overlap do you think there is between the two groups you mentioned?

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#148

Why doesn't Google treat all websites that load under 100ms at par with an AMP site? They keep using the ruse that AMP is important because it is all about fast loading sites and less frustrating user experience but they have page speed insights, and already rank sites based on load speed so why force this non standard on everyone? If they just said we'll give you a bolt icon and the perks for a site that loads under…

Basically, because it isn't actually possible to make a website that loads in under 100ms on poor connections any other way. For reference, on the fast university wifi I am currently connected to, news.ycombinator.com loads in 499ms. When I switch to my phone's hotspot, that rises to 2.38 seconds, and on a simulated slow 3G network, that rises to 6.51 seconds. I haven't tested a 2G connection in India, but wouldn't b…

The dumb thing is that for me AMP doesn't even work. It doesn't seem to reliably preload.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#150
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mobile user, I fucking hate it. I hate that every fucking google search result on mobile web has its stupid little icon I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user I hate that it has muddied the waters in what the url bar means I hate that it has trained users to not question fake url bars. I hate that cloudflare so thoroughly jumped on its dick I hate that we invented a way to fake the address in…

You seem really angry about this...

Then you haven't read my username.
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