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Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

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Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#91
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mobile user, I fucking hate it. I hate that every fucking google search result on mobile web has its stupid little icon I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user I hate that it has muddied the waters in what the url bar means I hate that it has trained users to not question fake url bars. I hate that cloudflare so thoroughly jumped on its dick I hate that we invented a way to fake the address in…

You seem really angry about this...

Those seem some pretty heavy criticisms, why wouldn’t that merit anger?

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mobile user, I fucking hate it. I hate that every fucking google search result on mobile web has its stupid little icon I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user I hate that it has muddied the waters in what the url bar means I hate that it has trained users to not question fake url bars. I hate that cloudflare so thoroughly jumped on its dick I hate that we invented a way to fake the address in…

> I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user Yeah, seems like you should be able to. Just curious, where would you want that option to appear, and how would you want to see the search experience change as a result?

My first guess is to only make it available in the first place to people using search while signed in. Could even sell it as a way to get the “faster” web by signing in. At least that way there’s a choice.

Making it default for everyone and then forcing people to sign in to opt out would be counterproductive from a privacy standpoint.

Could also just provide the original link right next to the AMP link in search results and let users decide.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#93

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

As a mobile user, I fucking hate it. I hate that every fucking google search result on mobile web has its stupid little icon I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user I hate that it has muddied the waters in what the url bar means I hate that it has trained users to not question fake url bars. I hate that cloudflare so thoroughly jumped on its dick I hate that we invented a way to fake the address in…

Cloudflare seems to have provided a service that fixes a lot of the issues you mentioned, so I'm not sure why you're mad at Cloudflare for making the best of this bad situation.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#94

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

If AMP is so appreciated by users, why not add a setting for is to disable it in search results, as people have been requesting for years?

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#95

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

As a mobile user, I fucking hate it. I hate that every fucking google search result on mobile web has its stupid little icon I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user I hate that it has muddied the waters in what the url bar means I hate that it has trained users to not question fake url bars. I hate that cloudflare so thoroughly jumped on its dick I hate that we invented a way to fake the address in…

I use duckduckgo on Firefox and I don't see any AMP pages. Give them a go.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#96
post #55
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that people will stop using google if it can’t help them find useful information. Google’s leadership seems to not understand or not care about how the internet works

The unfortunate truth is that even as I do my level best to use another search engine, DuckDuckGo most recently, I still find myself disappointed and trying the Google results at least half the time. I still think Google today isn’t as good as Google 10+ years ago, but I don’t think anything is as good as Google 10+ years ago. They don’t have to be flawless, they just have to be better than the rest, and they are. I…

Yeah, I'm on DDG but not too infrequently (particularly with news search) I find myself wondering why I can't find what I'm looking for before remembering to try !g and lo and behold Google is able to pull up what I'm looking for.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#97
I just want Google to acknowledge WHY they do stuff like this instead of an incompetent attempt to distract users with WHAT or HOW. AMP is clearly designed to keep internet users within Google's membrane because the default AMP cache most people are hitting is Google's. Sure, its faster then many types of websites but that is only a side affect of the system not its primary purpose or feature. Google execs are not excited or bullish about AMP because of performance gains. Talk about the real reasons if you want to have integrity.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#98
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mobile user, I fucking hate it. I hate that every fucking google search result on mobile web has its stupid little icon I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user I hate that it has muddied the waters in what the url bar means I hate that it has trained users to not question fake url bars. I hate that cloudflare so thoroughly jumped on its dick I hate that we invented a way to fake the address in…

I use duckduckgo on Firefox and I don't see any AMP pages. Give them a go.

DuckDuckGo users are going to be a minority for a long time.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#99
post #79
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that up to the developers themselves - whether they want to shoot themselves in the foot by slowing down their site by including lots of JS? Who is Google to determine how the Internet should be run? Shoving AMP down people's throat - because Google can as it owns majority browser and search market share - is akin to large governments in the world pushing their weight around and sticking their noses in other co…

No, it's akin to large governments swooping in and regulating industries when they start hurting people en masse. Web developers weren't professional enough to make the web fast. AMP isn't the right solution, but the community itself was incapable of policing itself so it was just a question of time before it happened. Before that, people were massively moving to the apps because the web got too slow and unusable on…

> No, it's akin to large governments swooping in and regulating industries when they start hurting people en masse

Okay, I can see that. The idea of Google being the gatekeeper and regulator of the Internet is scary though, especially given it's a for-profit corporation that has its own interests at hand. I think AMP would have been better if it started off as a proposal for it being a standard to HTML, voted on and governed by the W3C, instead of by Google.

> Web developers weren't professional enough to make the web fast

I would argue though, that web developers who are professional enough to adopt AMP, would be professional enough to ensure their site doesn't load bloat.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#100
post #79
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that up to the developers themselves - whether they want to shoot themselves in the foot by slowing down their site by including lots of JS? Who is Google to determine how the Internet should be run? Shoving AMP down people's throat - because Google can as it owns majority browser and search market share - is akin to large governments in the world pushing their weight around and sticking their noses in other co…

No, it's akin to large governments swooping in and regulating industries when they start hurting people en masse. Web developers weren't professional enough to make the web fast. AMP isn't the right solution, but the community itself was incapable of policing itself so it was just a question of time before it happened. Before that, people were massively moving to the apps because the web got too slow and unusable on…

> Web developers weren't professional enough to make the web fast.

Don't shit on (other?) developers to make your point. It's revisionism that only serves the purpose of taking more control from users and developers, which just conveniently gives even more power to the stakeholders who most benefit from the structurally unsound game businesses have been playing.

By the same logic, I could say the Google Chrome team (not related to AMP — just a metaphor) isn't professional enough to make a browser that uses less RAM. In reality, the team deals with a myriad of constraints and other priorities, both technical and commercial, that sometimes clash. Rendering speed and security are its major selling points; if both are met, management is satisfied and Google makes billions.

I'm loath to say this, but performance isn't where a lot of websites make money. It's the ads that people click, way too often by mistake. To feed this system, a bootload of tracking scripts, A/B testing scripts, overeager live support widgets...

Google is coyly selling preferred placement in exchange for performance, which may be the only way to get some businesses to care about performance. Developers are cranking out what the business owners are asking for.

Ask yourself why Google did not take aim at the ownership side, why it did not arrange discussions with major media companies etc. to establish performance as a company-wide goal, instead, put the responsibility on developers.

> Before that, people were massively moving to the apps because the web got too slow and unusable on mobile.

Yeah, the thought process to go from seeing the "use our mobile app instead! It's so much better!" banner, closing it and sending my eyes onto the content that I wanted to read takes at least half a second.

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