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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

cnet.com

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#331

Post by thatoneuser »

dwyerm wrote: post #239
bilbo0s wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and accept their TOS... Money quote. People aren't thinking ahead here about what this opens you up to with respect to privacy loss. Think about the permissions on your phone such an app could ask for in the future. Now consider that if you don't grant them, you could potentially not get into your apartment. Smart locks are a cancer. We should cut them out early.

Yeah, I and bet that TOS includes a mandatory binding arbitration and class-action waiver. When the lock fails who is going to be held responsible?

Def not the landlord or lock company.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#332

Post by thatoneuser »

looperhacks wrote: post #322
criley2 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is not authoritarian so much as "pro-ownership" The idea that the owner of a building couldn't perform maintenance as necessary is shocking!

The thought that someone could enter the place that holds everything I own is more shocking to me. If my landlord wants to enter my flat, he can ask me and I'll let them in - I can't make sure that my landlord doesn't enter my flat.

No but tbf you can point a camera at your door and Sue his ass off if he comes in without justification or permission.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#333

Post by threezero »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #320

The smart lock had a keypad that could be used to open it with a code. And to clarify, it was a smart lock into the building, not into individual apartments. How is this possibly a privacy concern? Also, the tenants didn't win a right to anything; they settled the case without going to trial.

It’s a privacy concern because it can still track your comings and goings. And even the codes were personalized to each tenant, so they could be tracked.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#334

Post by maxkwallace »

setquk wrote: post #101
Waterluvian wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My wife decided to add insult to this injury by spreading marmite all around the inside of the letter box." This was the part where you lost my support. That's a bit too petty.

We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection. The marmite was deserved. If you’re going to make someone’s life miserable and insecure for six months then we’re going to roll out the red carpet on pettiness.

To anyone reading this: if this happens to you, please talk to a lawyer. Please do something to protect future tenants, get the landlord's info online. Don't seek retribution just for yourself.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#335

Post by weliketocode »

yrro wrote: post #250
weliketocode wrote: post #244

Note that this was just a settlement, not a 'won' case. As per me, I'll stand with the smart locks. They're better for everyone. For landlords: - change locks by adding/removing users & passcodes - tenant forgets their code in the middle of the night? Remind them of the code For tenants: - No more lost keys; just remember a simple number or use your phone Some of the anti-lock tech arguments here are just silly. Land…

I wonder how likely a landlord would be to share the code upon receiving a suitable urgent-sounding text from an unknown number, containing only the property address and tenant's name (or perhaps not even that much...)

Just as likely as an ordinary locksmith would be to help the same person out in the same situation I'm sure.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#336

Post by silversconfused »

rhizome wrote: post #285
intopieces wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. When you say “The smart lock,” are you referring to the one in this story? The article mentions that this smart lock, which led to a common area, had a keypad: “Lisa Gallaudet, the landlords' attorney, said the smart lock was on a single door and that tenants were able to enter a numeric code t…

Do you know any 93 year olds? You might want to account for the lifestyle impact of switching from physical keys to stuff you have to memorize.

Arthritic fingers don't aim well. Keys are somewhat self-centering and easier to operate without good accuracy.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#337

Post by NoodleIncident »

intopieces wrote: post #255
sachdevap wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does look like a privacy win to me. Isn't it?

The smart lock could be operated without identification, using a code. It’s not clear to me that this code was unique per user. This does not look like a privacy win to me. It looks like a good precedent that will aid in a privacy court battle in the future.

I stayed in an AirBnB recently and the owner installed a smart lock while I was there. Assigning a unique code for each user is the entire point; you can invalidate the code once their lease is up, rather than worrying about the keys getting returned or copied.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#338

Post by checkyoursudo »

OrgNet wrote: post #173
est31 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> charged, working smartphone Not just that, you also have to install a proprietary piece of software onto the phone from a third party and accept their TOS. > can provide other people with a pseudo-legitimate access to it I think in the news story the smart locks were only installed on the front door not on the doors to the homes. If the landlord installed them on the doors for the homes as well, that would be very…

> charged, working smartphone > Not just that, you also have to install a proprietary piece of software onto the phone from a third party and accept their TOS. Also, the lock has to be charged at all times... is that the landlord's responsibility?

Fail open, uhhhh

A burglar's dream.

Fail open and get your stuff jacked? Or fail closed and have to ingress/egress via the window (or worse)?

I can imagine smart locks with no secondary opening mechanism being installed in my old dormitories at school. People already locked each other in with the penny jamming trick. Imagine if you could do that either by disrupting the power supply or setting up a cell/wifi jammer?

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#339

Post by crankylinuxuser »

xamuel wrote: post #246

From Philip K. Dick's "Ubik" (1969): The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when y…

And there's the future of Ethereum.

Autonomous corporations indeed.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#340

Post by ogirginc »

xamuel wrote: post #246

From Philip K. Dick's "Ubik" (1969): The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when y…

This might be one of the best HN comments I have ever seen. Thank you!
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