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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#191

Post by Insanity »

CydeWeys wrote: post #170
Insanity wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Family recently bought a house in the US, and it is pretty. But it is mainly wood by the looks of it. I do wonder how well that works (for y'know, not being fire hazard and not being terribly insulated, being able to whither bad weather conditions, ..). I have not visited their new place yet so I can't comment on what it is like to live there. But houses in Europe just look more sturdy. That is one thing that makes m…

Wood is an excellent material for construction. And yes, construction code does require fire prevention, which is typically achieved using non-flammable drywall. You're at much more risk in a fire from the contents of your house burning (like wooden furniture) than the house itself. Wood is also stronger than masonry against earthquakes and some other threats. Also, the structure itself is a depreciating asset. It's…

You make some good points, as I said I was just making assumption. It's definitely the land that is valuable, but you want a long lasting house with a minimum of renovations due to 'wear by environment'. My thought (assumption) was that it'd be better in our normal brick houses.

But fair enough, it's probably less bad than I thought :)

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#192

Post by setquk »

sjwright wrote: post #177
ubercow13 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the sibling comment demonstrates that it is was long term benefit.

Only a long term benefit in hindsight. Could have gone any number of ways.

Unlikely. There was some intelligence behind it. He was aware the locks had been changed as I explained his in an SMS so I did what he asked explicitly. Secondly I could apologise for the mistake of leaving the wrong keys inside the property. As for the marmite, some kid did a prank! Ooops. Based on the police's previous attitude, would they likely come out for a bit of marmite in a letterbox.

The put the keys through the letterbox thing was actually a masterpiece of idiocy on his part which I refrained from mentioning to him.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#193

Post by iam-TJ »

mAEStro-paNDa wrote: post #127
levosmetalo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who’s the bad one? Hmm And you basically did a disservice to all his future tenants by not reporting him to the police after being caught by you illegally accessing your home and destroying your property? By not reacting you basically silently allowed him to keep doing this. I would understand that he had some kind of power over you and you were afraid to react and report him, but you choose to confront him by bein…

Have you considered some of the landlord's actions might not have been illegal? Anyone from the UK that can chime in on this? Is there an authority responsible for this?

Here's a clause from a U.K. (England and Wales) lease agreement that is pretty standard:

35. Landlord's Covenant for Quiet Enjoyment

The Landlord covenants with the Tenant, that, so long as the Tenant pays the rents reserved by and complies with the obligations of this lease, the Tenant shall have quiet enjoyment of the Property without any interruption by the Landlord or any person claiming under the Landlord except as otherwise permitted by this lease.

There are clauses covering emergency entry for repairs (e.g. burst water pipes, leaking gas) in short-term rental agreements but - as others have said - they require "reasonable" notice in almost all cases aside from dire emergency, and the tenant can still refuse entry.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#194

Post by sara7262 »

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#195

Post by thieving_magpie »

hugi wrote: post #186
criley2 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI for Americans, it is generally illegal to change your locks and not provide the owner (or agent aka landlord) with a copy. It's their property, not yours, and depending on state/lease they have the right to have the locks drilled/replaced at YOUR expense because you are not allowed to lock an owner out of their property. There are only a few US states which have laws permitting tenants from changing locks and not…

In Iceland, if the owner of a rented apartment would request key access to his tenants apartment, well… That would be considered "batshit crazy". But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian.

Feudal and Authoritarian eh? Certainly not being dramatic over differing interpretations of property rights.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#196

Post by whttheuuu »

Freak_NL wrote: post #113
throwayEngineer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running? I don't like carrying keys

You don't have a place to put a single key, but you do lug along a smartphone to unlock the door again? Just put the key wherever you put the smartphone. My running pants came with a special key pocket. Before that I just hung a spare key on an old shoelace around my neck.

hmm...

Carrying a smartphone vs carrying a smartphone and a key chain.

I wonder which is preferable..

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#197

Post by rcthompson »

criley2 wrote: post #146
adwww wrote: post #22

When I was last renting (in the UK) I changed my locks the day I moved in, then swapped them back to the original cylinders when I left. I thought it was pretty good practice not to have a door with an unknown number of previous tennants, cleaners, letting agents, landlords etc with access.

FYI for Americans, it is generally illegal to change your locks and not provide the owner (or agent aka landlord) with a copy. It's their property, not yours, and depending on state/lease they have the right to have the locks drilled/replaced at YOUR expense because you are not allowed to lock an owner out of their property. There are only a few US states which have laws permitting tenants from changing locks and not…

I live in CA, and my lease has a clause specifically prohibiting changing/adding locks to the doors. I wonder if the CA law invalidates this clause. It's not a problem for this lease because my landlord is very hands-off - I've never even met them, only communicated via email. But I'll definitely be paying attention to clauses like this in the future, especially if there's a "smart" lock on the unit.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#198

Post by camtarn »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #51
Y_Y wrote: post #5

Most house locks are trivial to pick in about 30 seconds, and what I've seen of "smart" locks isn't much better. I think if you were really serious about preventing intruders (rather than discouraging opportunism) you need alarms and cameras and someone with a big stick.

Aren't security locks common over there? The typical night latch (Yale lock) is super easy to pick, but it wouldn't be easy to get UK insurance without a 5 or 7 lever Chubb lock, or one of the newer security locks. So pretty much everywhere has one - and quite often both. Newer doors tend to have multiple bolts in three places, operated by the single security key. Just a night latch might be used for internal doors,…

A surprising number of people I know (Edinburgh) live in shared rented flats with only a Yale lock. I'm surprised they're not burgled more often, but I guess there are only so many burglars to go round...!

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#199

Post by cyborgx7 »

schlowmo wrote: post #63
lqet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this legal? At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. [0] I can imagine that you can be held liable if, for example, a fire breaks out in your apartment, the apartment owner notices it, tries to enter your apartment to extinguish it, cannot enter because of changed lock, and the building burns down. [0] as others have mentioned below, th…

> "At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations." I am not a lawyer but I know that this is a common misunderstanding in Germany. The landlord is not allowed to keep a key to the apartment he rented out, unless you're explicitly consent to it.[0] You have to grant him access in case of an emergency and if you don't do that, forced entry may be…

That's good to learn! I think I might replace the lock this weekend.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#200

Post by cyborgx7 »

djsumdog wrote: post #150
schlowmo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations." I am not a lawyer but I know that this is a common misunderstanding in Germany. The landlord is not allowed to keep a key to the apartment he rented out, unless you're explicitly consent to it.[0] You have to grant him access in case of an emergency and if you don't do that, forced entry may be…

It's most likely built into all standard landlord agreements. I can't imagine a landlord not wanting to have keys a unit they rent out. In most US states, landlords are required to give 24 hour notice prior to entering a unit (unless it's a maintenance emergency like a broken water pipe).

If it is in the landlord agreement in Germany, that part of the agreement is void. Such a thing is against German law.
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