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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#141

Post by addicted »

mAEStro-paNDa wrote: post #127
levosmetalo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who’s the bad one? Hmm And you basically did a disservice to all his future tenants by not reporting him to the police after being caught by you illegally accessing your home and destroying your property? By not reacting you basically silently allowed him to keep doing this. I would understand that he had some kind of power over you and you were afraid to react and report him, but you choose to confront him by bein…

Have you considered some of the landlord's actions might not have been illegal? Anyone from the UK that can chime in on this? Is there an authority responsible for this?

I don’t know abounthe UK but I’m pretty sure I’ve had a lease agreement when I was a student that gave the landlord the right to enter at Will.

It could still have been illegal, but it was definitely in the lease.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#142

Post by sjwright »

robaato wrote: post #135
_delirium wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's legal in the UK for a tenant to change the locks, and there's also no law requiring them to provide the landlord a copy of the key. You do have to allow the landlord in for certain reasons (like maintenance) with advance notice, but you can do that by just being home and letting them in yourself. However, the letting contract might prohibit it, and I think commonly does. It's not a right of the tenant to be able…

From a recent tenancy agreement I've seen: g) Permit the Landlord or the Landlord's agents on reasonable notice and at reasonable hours to enter the premises to view the state and condition thereof and if necessary to carry out repairs, alterations or other works. s) Not to change or install any locks on any doors or windows of the premises or to make duplicate keys thereto and to return all such keys to the Landlord…

The first and second terms are unpalatable but could be tolerated under limited circumstances. I would look at concealing a remote-monitored security camera by the front door to catch and alert any unwelcome visitors.

But that third term is a deal-breaker. Eight weeks of living in an unsafe, insecure home with no privacy? I'm not paying rent for that.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#143

Post by heavenlyblue »

sjwright wrote: post #136
setquk wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection. The marmite was deserved. If you’re going to make someone’s life miserable and insecure for six months then we’re going to roll out the red carpet on pettiness.

Nothing is gained by being an asshole to an asshole. All you've done is provided him with documentable proof for how terrible and vindictive he thinks you are. It doesn't matter if every other claim he's made about you was a lie.

Can we stop with this Christian ethic? It's not always reasonable to present the other cheek.

The guy knows perfectly well what he's doing. If not treated badly, the next story he's going to be telling his mates is "how smart he was at getting that deposit for free from one of his tenants".

There are too many ways to get away with a crime.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#144

Post by setquk »

addicted wrote: post #141
mAEStro-paNDa wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered some of the landlord's actions might not have been illegal? Anyone from the UK that can chime in on this? Is there an authority responsible for this?

I don’t know abounthe UK but I’m pretty sure I’ve had a lease agreement when I was a student that gave the landlord the right to enter at Will. It could still have been illegal, but it was definitely in the lease.

It's not quite that straightforward here in the UK. Well it is but the other way. The landlord has no right to enter a property outright. The property is for exclusive enjoyment by the tenant according to law. They can give 24 hours' notice and enter to do repairs etc but you can refuse that outright and they have no rights beyond that without taking you to court.

If they turn up unannounced this is actually harassment under UK law.

We had some rather unpleasant slum landlords between the 1950s and 1970s which caused a few laws to be introduced. Unfortunately the nature of being a landlord seems to attract certain people who find new and creative ways to be dicks. Not the majority of landlords I will say who are mostly pretty good, but enough to cause problems.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#145

Post by the_pwner224 »

deadbunny wrote: post #93
iicc wrote: post #4

Firefox can block muted video from autoplaying: about:config media.autoplay.allow-muted false

Nice. Thanks. Also for any Firefox Sync users, you can sync about:config preferences: 1. Open about:config 2. Right click > New (Bool) 3. Preference name = services.sync.prefs. + name of setting; true eg: services.sync.prefs.media.autoplay.allow-muted

Another way is to use a user.js file, place it inside the FF profile folder (~/.mozilla/firefox/random-string.default) contents like this:

    user_pref("browser.download.folderList", 2);
    user_pref("browser.download.useDownloadDir", false);
    user_pref("browser.download.dir", "/tmp");
    // ...
You do have to manually copy it between computers, but putting all the prefs in here is easier IMO than dealing with a large number of services.sync.prefs.xxx in about:config. And you can place the user.js file in Dropbox/etc. and just make a symlink to it on your devices, so changes get synced automatically after the initial setup.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#146

Post by criley2 »

adwww wrote: post #22

When I was last renting (in the UK) I changed my locks the day I moved in, then swapped them back to the original cylinders when I left. I thought it was pretty good practice not to have a door with an unknown number of previous tennants, cleaners, letting agents, landlords etc with access.

FYI for Americans, it is generally illegal to change your locks and not provide the owner (or agent aka landlord) with a copy.

It's their property, not yours, and depending on state/lease they have the right to have the locks drilled/replaced at YOUR expense because you are not allowed to lock an owner out of their property.

There are only a few US states which have laws permitting tenants from changing locks and not notifying the owner or giving them a copy (CA, NJ are two). Other states permit tenant to change locks (or don't have explicit rules) but require the tenant to give a copy to the owner (like say NY).

The reason why this is tricky is because in the case of an emergency if the owner of the property needs to make emergency repairs, but cannot because you have locked them out, depending on the law and the lease in question, you could be liable for all of the damage to the property since you barred the owner from making repairs. That could be a 5 or 6 digit lawsuit pretty quickly depending on the property, the emergency and if it's multi or single family. (Think burst pipe in a multi-family flooding other tenants.... very expensive very fast)

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#148

Post by sjwright »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #143
sjwright wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is gained by being an asshole to an asshole. All you've done is provided him with documentable proof for how terrible and vindictive he thinks you are. It doesn't matter if every other claim he's made about you was a lie.

Can we stop with this Christian ethic? It's not always reasonable to present the other cheek. The guy knows perfectly well what he's doing. If not treated badly, the next story he's going to be telling his mates is "how smart he was at getting that deposit for free from one of his tenants". There are too many ways to get away with a crime.

I think you need to read my post again, I'm not talking about real ethics or so-called Christian ethics. I'm talking about doing what's in your selfish best interest. Put simply, don't do things that can be used against you by your enemy.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#149

Post by ubercow13 »

sjwright wrote: post #136
setquk wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection. The marmite was deserved. If you’re going to make someone’s life miserable and insecure for six months then we’re going to roll out the red carpet on pettiness.

Nothing is gained by being an asshole to an asshole. All you've done is provided him with documentable proof for how terrible and vindictive he thinks you are. It doesn't matter if every other claim he's made about you was a lie.

It probably felt good though!

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#150

Post by djsumdog »

schlowmo wrote: post #63
lqet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this legal? At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. [0] I can imagine that you can be held liable if, for example, a fire breaks out in your apartment, the apartment owner notices it, tries to enter your apartment to extinguish it, cannot enter because of changed lock, and the building burns down. [0] as others have mentioned below, th…

> "At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations." I am not a lawyer but I know that this is a common misunderstanding in Germany. The landlord is not allowed to keep a key to the apartment he rented out, unless you're explicitly consent to it.[0] You have to grant him access in case of an emergency and if you don't do that, forced entry may be…

It's most likely built into all standard landlord agreements. I can't imagine a landlord not wanting to have keys a unit they rent out.

In most US states, landlords are required to give 24 hour notice prior to entering a unit (unless it's a maintenance emergency like a broken water pipe).

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