What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#351

Post by mistermann » Thu, May 09, 2019, 5:49 AM UTC

rland wrote: post #311

caconym_ wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a rhetorical question? A lot of (most?) adults aren't immune to this sort of manipulation, let alone kids. See: Fox News, cults in general, and so on. It's not just about bad information, or opinion stated as fact, or whatever. Whether it is designed to indoctrinate and radicalize, or whether it "simply" evolved that way as a meme (in the Dawkins sense, probably clumsily applied), that's how it works. These p…

Meme is an absolutely perfect word for it. It sounds like a joke, but this content is purposefully created and disseminated for the purpose of "going viral," so that it can spread itself. It's created by people who either have only consumed like content and want to spread their virus ("my personal opinion based on internet reasearch is that...") or people who actually create this stuff on purpose to push the agenda o…

Memes have been a core part of political strategy for decades. Human beings have never thought fundamentally based on facts, and they likely never will. All parties do it to varying degrees, but it's very difficult to see it when it lines up with your personal ideology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#352

Post by ramblerman » Thu, May 09, 2019, 5:50 AM UTC

vzcx wrote: post #78

gatherhunterer wrote: post #67

> Sam’s guidance counselor pulled him out of his next class and accused him of “breaking the law.” Before long, he was in the office of a male administrator who informed him that the exchange was “illegal,” hinted that the police were coming, and delivered him into the custody of the school’s resource officer. At the administrator’s instruction, that man ushered Sam into an empty room, handed him a blank sheet of pap…

Yes! This is an anti-public school administration article masquerading as an anti-alt-right article.

Does it make it easier for you to comprehend if you can immediately assign it into one of the two camps?

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#353

Post by dragonsngoblins » Thu, May 09, 2019, 5:55 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #58

ukulele wrote: post #13

> He would be offline for a month and would need other mods to cover for him. To ask for help, he had to out himself as a kid. I wonder to what extent the alt-right actually is a young teen movement, with adults mixed in (being the ones who show in person). Is there any at least semi-reliable data on this?

I've watched the so-called alt-right develop online over the past 2-3 decades. Usenet, Live Journal, Encyclopedia Dramatica, the chans, etc. At least at the start, it was mostly about trolling and lulz. The anger of TFWNG. But somehow it's been captured by the actual right wing. That's frightening. There's a lotta young male angst out there.

> There's a lotta young male angst out there

See this is exactly the problem the article talks about. A young man got so heavily invested in a community because they weren't dismissive of him. Maybe a lot of young men feel people are treating them dismissively and that a lot narratives other people espouse don't resonate with their personal experience.

Maybe we should consider why this anger is so much more common in young men. The narrative of "equality looks like aggression when you've always been the one on top" doesn't really apply to kids who are only 13, because no matter who was on top it wasn't kids.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#354

Post by GreaterFool » Thu, May 09, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #345

GreaterFool wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I define "fascist" I'm sorry, but you don't get to do that! `fascism` already has an established meaning. Please make up a new word for what you believe `fascism` means. Going by the dictionary definition: > 1. a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatori…

> how can we have any discussion about anything if everyone gets to define words to mean whatever they want to mean? Redefining terms has been common on reddit for years now but it is gaining ground here quite steadily. It's pretty disheartening that the mods seem fine with this, perhaps they see it as an ends justifies the means type of thing.

Perhaps it's time to put it in the Terms of Service that blatant disregard for dictionary definitions shall lead to suspension or an outright ban!

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#355

Post by lone_haxx0r » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:00 AM UTC

The "alt-right" is the natural reaction to the bombardment of progressive leftism (for lack of a better concept) perpetrated initially by the media and now by mainstream society in general, including silicon valley.

Most of these alt-righters aren't educated enough to articulate a good ideological response to this bombardment, but they know that people are being manipulated, and the best thing they can do is state the complete opposite (or what they see as the complete opposite) to what progressive media says, which makes them be this way.

Another thing to consider is the hypocrisy with which most people criticize the "alt-right", but don't even bat an eye when the 'progressives' act the same way.

When mainstream society becomes reasonable again, alt-righters and similar movements will disappear.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#356

Post by nailer » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:01 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #324

ytNumbers wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose UKIP not wanting to submit to their EU bureaucrat overlords makes them radical, right-wing, authoritarian, ultranationalists. Can't someone just finally be sick and tired of all the consequences of EU globalism without being labeled a racist? Sigh... I guess someone has to live for decades in one of the areas worst affected by globalism in order to grasp what has been squandered. For most people, they're no…

I suppose such people could exist. But they're plainly not the main. I know this because I listen to their spokespeople. They are unsubtle. And you didn't answer why you chopped the quote. I wonder why.

Not the OP, but the 'authoritarian' part of the definition of fascism is more essential than the 'right wing' part.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#357

Post by max76 » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:01 AM UTC

vzcx wrote: post #170

GreaterFool wrote: post #110

It's an interesting story. I find the conclusion not unsurprising. The author seems to assume the existence of `alt-right` as a monolithic group with a specific agenda. As far as I can tell that's not true. These groups may come out together to protest because they've been lumped together by the media. If they weren't all branded `alt-right`, would they connect? If you want to disarm them, divide them! Don't label th…

People don't go to radical groups for the ideology: They come for the emotional outlet and camaraderie. Some radicals will flip flop enormously during their "career." They are activists. The guy with anarchist and nazi symbols is not an unusual sight. He's a perpetual misfit without the creativity to fashion his own ideology, someone looking for an edgy support group, who wants to be both with people and distinct fro…

This is too strong of a generalization. There are several people from the woman's suffrage movement, the 1960s civil rights movement, and countless others that both had radical (for the time) internally consistent ideology and participated in activism.

Yes, there are people in radical groups just to be misfits. Yes, there are people that think and write radical ideas without participating in activism. There are also people that join radical groups because they believe in the ideology, and there are original thinkers in radical groups that participate in the activism side.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#358

Post by bashwizard » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:02 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #257

educationdata wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I haven't seen any fascist video on YouTube. Yes, there are lots of right-wing videos. Fascist? I don't believe there are that many on YouTube, unless you define fascist as anything anti-left.

I define "fascist" much as Ian Danskin does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXv... Its critical aspects include inherent beliefs of racial superiority and the need to "recapture" a great society lost. And there are plenty on YouTube with large followings. Though some have been banned since. Chud Supreme Carl, "Sargon of Akkad", comes to mind as an example, and one I'm willing to namedrop bec…

You can of course define it however you want but that doesn't mean your definition is correct or even close to the actual definition.

You see, according to your and Danskin's definition roughly 20% (and it's growing since more political parties are adopting the same politics) of the swedish population are fascist based on last years election where the Sweden Democrats (labeled as racists and fascists in the mainstream media) became the 2nd largest political party.

The problem here is that the left is tilting so far left that even centrists are being labeled as far-right these days.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#359

Post by honkycat » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:02 AM UTC

vzcx wrote: post #102

alexandercrohde wrote: post #88

I was totally onboard with this article until the last sentence. I was enjoying this article as an exploration of emotional vulnerability, the connection between beliefs and belonging, the mixed blessing of internet anonimity. But if the (suspiciously articulate) kid goes from alt-right to antifa, I don't think that's any sort of progress to be applauded. I interpreted the article's point to be that alt-right is just…

Excellent, excellent points. Antifa members are often just a sick with fears, insecurities, and vengeance, as alt-right members. They are both peddlers of resentment, just run by different priests, and aimed at different enemies. Self-examination, getting beneath the ideologies and down at the underlying emotional content motivating their hosts is the only productive path to dialog and growth I've encountered so far.

You are trying so hard to sound reasonable and "both sides" these threads but it is simple to clock you.

Both sides do not have merit. Only one side advocates hate against minorities and white nationalism. Only one side has multiple mass shooters it it's ranks.

One side is a xenophobic reactionary group that contains nazis, and the other is a counter-protest group.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#360

Post by mistermann » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:07 AM UTC

GreaterFool wrote: post #354

mistermann wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how can we have any discussion about anything if everyone gets to define words to mean whatever they want to mean? Redefining terms has been common on reddit for years now but it is gaining ground here quite steadily. It's pretty disheartening that the mods seem fine with this, perhaps they see it as an ends justifies the means type of thing.

Perhaps it's time to put it in the Terms of Service that blatant disregard for dictionary definitions shall lead to suspension or an outright ban!

No one will willingly give up their memes, they seem to have the allure of the ring of power.