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CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

nytimes.com

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Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse. The previous controversy this show caused was actual calls to violence, including a very overtly "coded" message to assassinate Trump. So, CBS will let that run, but will censor anything that offends the communist party of China. Edit: For everyone jumping on the downvote train: I don't think either should be censored, but what they do censor is very telling of their ethics.

May I ask if you've actually watched the show? In context, this was a list of the words that are being monitored by the NSA. It stands to reason that the NSA would want to track people who discuss assassinating the president. I don't understand why this is controversial.

That context doesn't absolve CBS.

It is wildly inappropriate to be doing such a thing.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#232
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what you're saying is that if in 2010 a TV show put the same thing on screen but had Obama instead of Trump, that everyone would think it was ok?

Yes, because the context was "the NSA should be concerned about these words." I think the NSA is concerned about the assassination of any president.

No, that doesn't absolve CBS.

The words themselves are far too easily decontextualized by people, they have power on their own.

CBS is hiding behind that, it's utterly inappropriate.

The context would have to be glaringly and completely clear, basically explained, in order for it to be approaching 'ok'.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Most corporations have no more loyalty to one "side" or the other nor any more loyalty to an ideology than the Coke/Fanta hybrid-monstrosity of the 1940s. It took employees to force Google to reverse some of its policies, not its board of directors. At the same time, as the US withdraws from the world, China fills in. They zealously sell the surveillance state and its equipment world wide just as the US e…

The last couple of days I've been learning a little more about China's emerging surveillance state and while terrifying to think about and worse sad knowing they're building essentially concentration camps, I am wondering how effective are China's policies. i.e. does China's investment and push towards a controlled society actually come out ahead compared to if they didn't? Without looking at any figures, surely poli…

>So would the safety gained from their extreme surveillance state increase over all productivity ....

Most folks that have any opinion on humanitarian or privacy social issues would probably be unwilling to entertain the idea of cost/benefit analysis with regards to whether or not concentration camps (no, not 're-education' camps) provide a societal good.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CBS said "This is the creative solution that we agreed upon with the producers". I have been wondering if the producers insisted that the segment be censored in all regions so that everyone would know about it. Otherwise Americans would never know about the censorship.

You don't fight censorship by doubling down on censorship. It's entirely possible to show the uncensored version in America and raise awareness that the segment was censored in other regions.

>You don't fight censorship by doubling down on censorship.

even though that's basically what the entire internet 'black bar' campaign was about during the SOPA/PIPA crisis.[0]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nazi Germany had concentration camps as early as 1933 (Dachau) and nobody did anything either until they started invasions and a war. Most genocides have happened as the world watches and says "oh wow that's terrible we should do something" and then do nothing. This is simply how humans behave on an international scale. There is nothing 'amazing' about it.

A) Nobody really knew about such camps. B) The 'final solution' stuff did not happen until much later ie. i) scale and ii) death C) That was in 1930. There was barely radio. There was no 'globalism' or 'global news'. There was no global awareness. What 'went on in Germany' might have been going on on mars. It's 2019 now, China has no excuse, and we have no excuse.

>It's 2019 now, China has no excuse, and we have no excuse.

Well, I guess the question is : if things were so much different in the 30s, and it was stalled by the lack of global information awareness, why are we (humans on earth) complicit with the camps that exist now-a-days (and in more places than just China.)?

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not Assange's fault if the truth caused opinions to sway.

>It's not Assange's fault if the selectively-revealed truth caused opinions to sway due to his editorial influence .

It's a relativity thing.

He selectively revealed truths that were hidden from us by people who were either out-right lying, or were totally ignorant to the existence of what was revealed.

So, as a citizen, do I trust an individual who selectively introduces me to information, or do I trust the large conglomerate governments which I now know to wholeheartedly lie to me on a repeated basis?

In old Louisiana parlance : " if I gotta choose between bags of shit, i'll take the one that comes with the clothes pin for my nose. "

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#237
post #18

It's a bit telling when a media giant like CBS can't strike a happy medium by you know - both not censoring it in the US and censoring it in china - instead, choosing to censor the whole thing outright on the entire platform. It's almost like all these American companies are moving en masse to do business in China with the sole purpose of increasing profits every single quarter, irrespective of (and arguably, now enc…

Absolutely. Most corporations have no more loyalty to one "side" or the other nor any more loyalty to an ideology than the Coke/Fanta hybrid-monstrosity of the 1940s. It took employees to force Google to reverse some of its policies, not its board of directors. At the same time, as the US withdraws from the world, China fills in. They zealously sell the surveillance state and its equipment world wide just as the US e…

> For those annoyed by the occasionally harmful American hegemony, just wait till you see what China is going to do.

There are plenty of abuses to call out on all sides, but let's not resort to euphemisms when comparing the historical abuses [1] of one side to future abuses from another. It's a great disservice to all those who have been just "occasionally harmed" (I'm sure they don't feel the same way as you do).

[1] https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrociti...

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming we are taking a US centric view here, I feel just the opposite: that speech has scarcely ever been so free. It was less than a decade ago that the U.S. military had a policy literally called "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". It was only fifty years ago that Martin Luther King Jr. was being investigated by the FBI, for speech that is now broadly considered necessary. About 100 years ago, check out the Sedition Act of…

I actually disagree with you. I think US public opinion is currently swinging very hard in a direction reminiscent of the predominant reasoning behind the Sedition Act and its contemporaries. I like to take a judiciary-centered view; Congress can pass whatever censorious laws they want to, but those laws are toothless without the Court constructing the First Amendment in a way that upholds them. That construction was…

Thank you for your very well researched and reasoned disagreement. It's frankly a breath of fresh air, and I can't really say that you're wrong on any specific point.

I think the fundamental issue in the US right now is not an overall shift in public opinion, but rather a polarization. It's a super weird polarization, because none of the significant poles (I think there are at least four) are ideologically consistent. Nor do any benefit any particular cohesive group. Such is the nature of coalition politics in the information age.

When two sides are so far apart on an issue, it becomes very difficult to have a constructive debate. When something is difficult, it's only human nature to find a different way to accomplish the same goal. Censorship is one way to do that: leveraging resources outside the debate in an attempt to make your opposition less effective.

That being said, I think some of the reaction to this is overstated. People are often quick to cry censorship at someone else's act of using his or her own free speech in response, e.g. the "no-platforming" stuff you refer to. Citizens United v. FEC held that corporations, being made up of individuals, have very similar free speech rights to those of individuals. It's not a stretch to extend this to editorial discretion, which means that these companies do indeed have that discretion.

Yet two of the major poles that I identify largely agree with the no-platforming of hate speech, and disagree with the decision in Citizens United v. FEC. The other two agree with Citizens United v. FEC, and disagree with no-platforming of hate speech. These are based on the same principle, but to a good first approximation, nobody is consistent in that principle.

I'm not totally sure where we go from here, but it's sure to be interesting (in the sense of the apocryphal Chinese curse).

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming we are taking a US centric view here, I feel just the opposite: that speech has scarcely ever been so free. It was less than a decade ago that the U.S. military had a policy literally called "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". It was only fifty years ago that Martin Luther King Jr. was being investigated by the FBI, for speech that is now broadly considered necessary. About 100 years ago, check out the Sedition Act of…

"Don't ask don't tell" wasn't an attempt at censorship. In fact, when it was introduced by the Clinton administration it was hailed by LGBT groups because it allowed gay people to serve in the military. People have forgotten the context in which Don't Ask Don't Tell was created. Today people assume it was some evil, presumably Republican, plan to keep gay people down. It was seen as quite the opposite when it first s…

It is true that censorship was offered as an alternative to overt discrimination, and to that end it was a clear improvement. It is also true that the end result was indeed censorship.

However, if you prefer a more pure anti-censorship change in the past decade, you might look at Citizens United v. FEC.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought he was at one point, but now it's sadly obvious he's an intelligence asset. He was literally an employee of Russian state media, and I have yet to see him publish anything that would embarrass Russia.

The last free press of Novaya Gazeta received plenty and published plenty. Their journalists have been murdered left and right, often leading back to Kreml. Why do people keep saying they haven't published anything on Russia? It's simply not truth and I see that being said over and over again.

> The last free press of Novaya Gazeta received plenty and published plenty.

...so?

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